Well I know that the ignition is impenetrable in these Saab's. My ignition just locked uo a while back. You need the key to remove the ignition. Best bet would to have a new key made. Mine was like $20. Yours might be more expensive because you dont have the key. Just call a local locksmith and have him make a new one. Or you could go to the Saab dealership and give them your serial number, registration, and proof of ownership then they will make you one. I know the are expensive though.

Best of Luck!!!

 

Not 100% sure on this, but the immobilizer works (as in disables starting) even without power. The TWICE module has to specifically tell the ECU that all is OK for it to start.

I'm curious, how are you cranking the car without a key?

 

I removed fuse #35 and the engine stared for 5 seconds (real slow). I am also wondering if I remove fuse #11 as well. The Dice/Twice module will be bypassed so it does not have to specifically tell the ECU that all is OK to crank. What do you think?

 

I removed fuse #35 and the engine stared for 5 seconds (real slow). I am also wondering if I remove fuse #11 as well. The Dice/Twice module will be bypassed so it does not have to specifically tell the ECU that all is OK to crank. What do you think?

If it were that easy, my insurance would be higher. Saab engineers are not dumb.

 

OK, along the lines of this topic...

I am just curious as to how the Saab Anti-Theft system works? How does the DICE/TWICE work? Maybe I have seen Gone in 60 Seconds too many times but I really didn't think cars had very complicated or advanced security systems. You know you see the Saab Anti-Theft sticker on the window but I didn't put much faith in that.

Just interested in how all these advanced computer systems work in our vehicles.

-Ryan

 

OK, along the lines of this topic...

I am just curious as to how the Saab Anti-Theft system works? How does the DICE/TWICE work? Maybe I have seen Gone in 60 Seconds too many times but I really didn't think cars had very complicated or advanced security systems. You know you see the Saab Anti-Theft sticker on the window but I didn't put much faith in that.

Just interested in how all these advanced computer systems work in our vehicles.

-Ryan

Hello,

I Lost key to SAAB 2000 9-3 in september and I am trying to find out if I can start & drive my saab without fuse 35 and 11.
I asked this question because, My car engine started for 5 seconds (engine sounded rough chug or thump thump--maybe just cold since it has been siting) and stopped. I tried to start it again but it would not turn over again with the Jump.

So, I am wondering if it is because the car has been sitting in my yard since September, and the battery is weak even with a jump
or
even with fuses 35 and/or 11 removed the car will not fully start and I was just lucky for the engine to start?


Thinking out loud:
I am hoping that removing fuse 35 works. Since it is now December (35 degrees) and the engine started for about 5 seconds. My battery could just be weak, Maybe I need to also change my spark plugs.

I will try to get the battery recharged before buyng a new one.

Please tell me what you all think.

Someone said something about a transponder. Do you by chance have a iPod? I know some older ones don't have blue tooth so you had to buy a transponder to play it through your radio. Maybe a station matched your key fob. I'm curious if you would let me know I have a 2003 Saab 9-3 and I would love to bypass the twice because every once in a while it just dies on me and won't start unless I use starting fluid.

 

From what I have heard and read, without the key and correct transponder in key; starting the vehicle is very difficult. I know that each key is programmed into the ECU, without a programmed key the engine does not even turn over.

How are you turning over the engine?

As Darren900 said, I am sure bypassing the DICE/TWICE is very difficult if not impossible. I am sure saab thought about people just crossing wires and pulling fuses. I have heard horror stories of owners losing both keys and having to replace the whole theft system because new keys could be programmed. Not sure if that's just a myth or not.

 

how to crank the car without a key?

I'm curious, [/QUOTE]
I don't recommend doing it; but my car's immobilizer has been activated.
You can crank the car over w/o a key by jumping the ignition relay socket under the dash.
The red slots in diagram of relay socket below:
__

l l

l
I'm very curious as to how to disarm the anti-theft module. There has got to be a couple of pins you can jump or run a current to disarm the unit.
Very curious; for two years now.
Taking hints.

 

I'm very curious as to how to disarm the anti-theft module. There has got to be a couple of pins you can jump or run a current to disarm the unit.
Very curious; for two years now.
Taking hints.

Depends on what car, the 900 is relatively easy to bypass the immobilizer, on the 9-3 it's essentially impossible without replacing the TWICE with another that you still have a transponder chip for.

Probably only three ways to start a 9-3 once you've lost your keys:

1) There are a few services that for around $750 USD will reprogram your TWICE and supply a replacement key. You send them your TWICE and VIN and they'll do the rest. It's plug and play.

2) Take the car to your local dealer, they'll install a new TWICE and supply replacement keys, last I heard, the total cost was over $1500.

3) Purchase a used TWICE with transponder and have a dealer or Tech 2 equipped independent program the TWICE into the car. I've seen a crazy amount of variations on the cost of a used TWICE with transponder.

In my area, there is one independent that also sells used SAAB parts, the sad news, at his prices, the mail order path is less expensive!

It's one of the reasons I ended up buying my own Tech 2 unit, just to keep from getting shafted.

 

Another thought. For those who have been hacking & playing with the T7 firmware - perhaps the T7 can be programmed to not ask the TWICE module for permission? (Or programmed to always answer itself with the correct code instead of requesting it from TWICE?) A standalone ECU setup should also be able to bypass TWICE.

From the factory, the T7 receives the wake up signal from the ignition. T7 then asks TWICE for permission to allow the engine to start. TWICE communicates, via the antenna above the ignition switch, with the chip in the key and reads its programmed code. If the code on the chip matches what is stored in TWICE, it then acknowledges to T7 and T7 starts the car. The only reason DICE is involved is to facilitate this communication.

Another object of contention that I have is if anyone has ever actually dug in and found out if the chips in our keys are really PROMs or if they are actually EPROMs with a check digit which tells TWICE not to reprogram it.

 

This is from another site and only applies to the '94-98 NG900s:

"Jack,

I bypassed the immobilzer circuit only on my alarm module (which is really tedious). Bypassing the whole module is possible (and little easier), but you will lose the use of the remotes and the ability to arm the alarm.

The alarm module in my '97 900 SETC is located under the carpet, below the driver's power seat switches (a pain to get at). I'm guessing yours is in the same location.

BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER, CHECK TO BE SURE YOUR '95 HAS THE SAME TYPE ALARM MODULE AND CIRCUITRY AS MY '97. IF YOURS IS DIFFERENT, THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION MAY BE WORTHLESS AND CAUSE MORE PROBLEMS.

ALSO, YOU WILL NEED THE ALARM MODULE CONNECTOR DIAGRAM (I got mine from ALLDATADIY.com) TO COMPLETE THIS SECTION, AS THE CONNECTOR PINS ARE NOT MARKED.

If you want to bypass the module completely:

1. Disconnect the battery (make sure you know the radio code-if needed)
2. Unplug the connector from alarm module and remove module from car
3. Install a wire jumper between pin 8 and pin 20 in the connector
4. Install a wire jumper between pin 9 and pin 21 in the connector
5. Install a wire jumper between pin 10 and pin 22 in the connector
6. Wrap securely with electrical tape

If you want to bypass the immobilizer circuit only:

1. Disconnect the battery (make sure you know the radio code-if needed)
2. Unplug the connector from the alarm module
3. Cut the following wires from the back of the connector and splice together as follows (Don't cut the wires too close to the connector, because someday down the road you may want install a new module, so you'll have to reverse this process):
4. Cut the wires to pin 8 and pin 20 and splice together w/ wire nut
5. Cut the wires to pin 9 and pin 21 and splice together w/ wire nut
6. Cut the wires to pin 10 and pin 22 and splice together w/ wire nut
7. Secure all with electrical tape
8. Reconnect the connector to the module."

Do not cut the wires too short if you intend to ever undo the bypass... Ron

 

can someone tell me... if the TWICE is immobilizing your vehicle... will it or will it not allow it to crank BUT NOT FIRE? i have conflicting information about whether or not the twice totally prevents cranking or if it just wont supply the vehicle with spark.

 

On the NG900s T5 systems, it inhibits the fuel pump, ignition and starter. Can't comment on the T7 and later ignitions. I suspect that 3 reed switches in the T5 systems get energized to enable the fuel pump, ignition and starter solenoid. A failure of any of the switches would cause a particular starting failure... Ron

 

On a 2000 9-3 (T7), you can turn on the ignition, but when you turn it to start, nothing happens and "key not recognized" shows up in the SID.

 

Ok that's what I thought. My sid is saying "check ok". I really think my problem is the dice on this car because it is cranking but not firing and everything else on this car is good... good coil good cps good ecu ...rad fan run for a minute even when I have key out of ignition and they shut off when I disconnect the dice. And the obd is showing link error.

 

You have to watch out for that fan. It's controlled by a temp sensor and can run with the key out. If it's hot outside and the car's in the sun, the fan can start without notice and there's a possibility of getting hurt... Ron

 

well im in michigan and its 20 degrees here so im thinking i am probably safe there.

 

Ii could care less where you are. If the engine temperature gets too hot the fan can come on at anytime without warning.

If you are an ASE master mechanic then you should have a copy of the WIS or can find on and trace the leads.

I just don't want someone to get hurt messing around under the hood when they can avoid it. Like this guy with the ponytail and the fan clipped to operate directly through the thermostat... Ron

 

hahaha thats a good pic!! but yea the engine wont even start so no temp issues but that is a good piece of info to have for future reference. yes i am a master mechanic, yes i can trace the leads. even tho i am a master, i dont know everything. this car is driving me nuts.

 

come to think of it.. that could be a very manly looking chick

 

sob Saab

Well my 1999 9-5 has been sitting 4 months the gm guys gave up and the European experts too. But I got to thinking, how do the guys who race Saabs get around that whole system so I've fired off emails to guys racing Saabs. So far here is what I have learned, they rip out all the electronics and start from scratch and make their own system at very high costs, so that is out. I talked to one of the Saab mechanics and he says I have to replace the Twice,the key and the barrel. Then see if a GM dealer who has someone who knows how to use the Tech2 can reprogram the Twice. BTW don't get a LHD Twice they may cause more problems.
Since once bitten by a GM mechanic and his tech2, I am going to remove the Twice and open it up and see if I can find a way to defeat it. I am a retired BioMed tech so maybe I can find something and report back. I don't expect to find reed switches anymore, but boy would that be nice,
Anyway off to get a 40 mm torx and I will take pics and tell you what I find. This is one time being retired sucks because if I was at work I would have more than just a multimeter

 

How did you get on with this in the original post was this still a twice enabled car even though it was a t5 ??

Having serious issues with my 2004 victor at the moment

 

If this is a T5, it may have the same immobilizer under the drivers seat. If it is, then three jumpers, one for the ignition, fuel pump and starter are all that's needed. It's even documented in the factory schematic diagram since immobilizers were not used in some countries outside the US and Canada... Ron

 

Sob saab

It's a 1999. 95SE 3.0 V6 and the Twice unit has been reprogrammed at an Imobilizer specialist shop in England and they also supplied a matching transponder chip. The car does start for about 5 seconds and that is because the Twice needs to be married to the ecu and dice unit.
I was told you just need to go to a GM dealer with a tech2, but the GM guys just say they can't /won't do it or put me thru to a phone that rings and hangs up.

 

I was told you just need to go to a GM dealer with a tech2, but the GM guys just say they can't /won't do it or put me thru to a phone that rings and hangs up.

If they have a Tech II with the Saab chip then they can do it.

Find an Indy mechanic with more clue.

 

Yeah the keys twice,dice, was told also the stereo needs to be all done ??

 

The TWICE is not married to the car, nor mated to the DICE (at least on the T5 cars). A 9-5's TWICE will plug into and enable a keyless 9-3.

The TWICE should be properly programmed for the car it's in since it runs the power locks but the basic function of allowing the car to start is independent of the locks.

The DICE carries the car's VIN and the T7 instrument cluster, T7 ECU and all the radios and CD changers do need to be mated together. Only the radio and CD changers were "married" to the DICE the rest of the units are simply mated and can be swapped out and re-mated without (much) trouble.

The radio and cd changer need to connected to their married DICE (by VIN) to be divorced before they can be married to another.

It's my understanding that the UK remote units use a slightly different frequency, using a UK spec remote probably requires the UK spec receiver (very rear of the center console).

I'm pretty sure that the immobilizer built into the T7 system was added as an answer to how easy it is to bypass the OEM immobilizer in the NG900.

Never tried it but I suspect that bypassing the T5 powered 9-3's TWICE would be about as straight forward as the NG900, just rework the control circuit for a couple relays and I think a T5 could be started without a TWICE.

On the car that will start with the imported TWICE but only runs for 5 seconds, I'm not sure what's going on. It sounds almost like the fuel pump relay is getting shut down but as I understand the system, the immobilizer is a "go/no go" system. If it lets the starter crank, lets the fuel pump pressurize the system and powers up the ECU, it should maintain those functions. Odd.

 

The radio and cd changer need to connected to their married DICE (by VIN) to be divorced before they can be married to another.

If you know get a radio that has not been divorced and you have the VIN of the car it came from, you can do this with a Tech II:
- divorce your existing radio from the car
- change the VIN of the car to the VIN of the car that the radio came from with the Tech II
- change the year of the car to match the year of the undivorced radio with the Tech II (calculate from the VIN)
- hook up the undivorced radio and divorce it
- change the VIN back to the original VIN for the car
- change the year back to the original year
- marry the now divorced radio to the car

I don't know if you can do that with a changer if the radio is already married. There are some combinations I can think of that would cause issues, but maybe it works.

It's my understanding that the UK remote units use a slightly different frequency, using a UK spec remote probably requires the UK spec receiver (very rear of the center console).

Definitely do use a different frequency

Never tried it but I suspect that bypassing the T5 powered 9-3's TWICE would be about as straight forward as the NG900, just rework the control circuit for a couple relays and I think a T5 could be started without a TWICE.

Rumored to be true, but I don't know if anyone has done the T5 bypass on a T-5 9-3.

On the car that will start with the imported TWICE but only runs for 5 seconds, I'm not sure what's going on. It sounds almost like the fuel pump relay is getting shut down but as I understand the system, the immobilizer is a "go/no go" system. If it lets the starter crank, lets the fuel pump pressurize the system and powers up the ECU, it should maintain those functions. Odd.

The immobilizer is go/no-go, but perhaps when it's a mismatch (not an expected condition for the system) it behaves like that.

 

FWIW starting my 2002 with a non mated/married dash cluster would result in it running for a few seconds then shutting off (weirdly if I switched it while the car was running it would continue to run, until i shut it off). Sounds like one of the items is not correctly mated/married if it only runs for a few seconds, buts starts every time.