[Snowden]

I have the alignment tool. How should I go about starting over exactly?

 

[Snowden]

Where can I find the procedure for finding TDC and timing each cam from step 1? Which procedure on WIS should I follow? I started out using WIS for this but the instructions were not complete. This step:

"Lower the car and zero the engine by turning the crankshaft in the direction of rotation of the engine until the marking on the crankshaft pulley is aligned with the marking on the timing cover. The cam lobes on cylinder 1 intake and exhaust camshafts should be pointing up/in. (A)"

was impossible from the start because timing must have already been off due to my broken balancer chain tensioner guide.

I found on WIS how to replace the camshafts, but it does not mention how to set up timing. Also I am unclear on the instructions, it sounds like if I take out the camshafts I need new camshafts and rocker arms? Or is it just if I actually put different (new) camshafts back in the engine that I need new rocker arms, and if I am putting back my old camshafts I can reuse my old rocker arms? Is it even required to remove the camshafts to set the timing?

I also found the instructions to check the camshaft setting which looks like it could be what I need but it mentions on step 16 "If the adjustment tool does not fit onto the cams, loosen some of the camshaft pulley bolts, grip the camshaft flats with a wrench." but as far as I know there is nothing called "camshaft pulley" or "camshaft pulley bolt", do they mean the camshaft sprockets? From my research the sprockets are held on by the torque pressure of the bolt, unlike other versions of the ecotec which use a key index feature, so that would make sense, or is there actually something called camshaft pulley? I couldn't find anything like that on any parts website so I think it is a typo.

 

[Snowden]

First of all thank you, born again, for the very detailed reply. To clarify, I still have the sprockets on the camshafts and have not removed the chain yet. I have removed the timing cover but my idea was that after removing the chain and sprockets I would put it back on temporarily and then slide the crank pulley into the key on the crankshaft and rotate it by hand to line up with the mark on the cover, then carefully remove the crank pulley and cover again. As far as I understand it, there should be no harm in rotating the crankshaft if is not connected to the chain?

Can you explain a little more about the probe? I'm imagining an endoscope but is there a specific device that I would stick down into the spark plug hole to see something, and what exactly would I be looking/feeling for? I assume I would have to take out the spark plug and would see the top of a piston, or poke it with a long thin stick and just feel it out.

As for making sure the valves are open when rotating the crank, how would I do this? If I rotate the camshafts using the sprockets without the chain on such that they are aligned with the alignment tool, would that be sufficient to know the valves are open or is there another way to determine this?

In your post you mention that you hadn't replaced the balancer chain, but hoping you might have some insight or have done it on one of your other two jobs. The marks on my balancer sprockets which are supposed to point at 6 o'clock for the exhaust and 12 o'clock for the intake are both pointing at 6 o'clock. With the balancer chain off, would it be safe to rotate them to the correct positions when fitting a new chain? I assume so because this would be needed to line up the marks on the chain with the marks like in this picture, but I figured it is better to ask just in case.

 

[Snowden]

With the cams on the #1 cylinder in the lobes in the proper up and in position for the blocks all the valves are closed and you can rotate the crank at will. But don't do that as you should have already set the crank before loosening the cam sprocket bolts. Then you would have to reset it using the balancer.

For this, I have tried to set the correct position (lining up the notch on the harmonic balancer/crank pulley) but with the chain on it is impossible to hold this position, it requires me to hold a lot of pressure on the balancer to do this. I believe it is because of a few skips that probably happened. Strange that I never got a check engine warning about it. So I think I will have to do the following:

1. Remove the guides, tensioners, sprockets and chains
2. Gently refit the timing cover
3. Refit the sprockets with enough pressure that I can rotate the camshafts by hand to the "up and in" positions
4. Use the alignment tools by pushing them down on the cams to ensure exact "up and in" positions
5. With the cams now properly aligned, as per your suggestion, it should be safe to now slide the harmonic balancer back in its key and rotate the crankshaft (without the chain on) so the notch on the balancer lines up with the mark on the timing cover
6. Remove the balancer and timing cover
7. Fit the chains, guides and tensioners (including manually adjusting the freely spinning balancer sprockets for the exhaust and intake such that they match the marks on the new balancer chain)
8. Activate the tensioners
9. Remove the cam alignment tools and refit the bearing caps
10. Use the old bolt in the crank with a wrench to turn the engine two full rotations
11. Remove the bearing caps and refit the alignment tools to ensure timing is still accurate
12. Refit the timing cover and torque the new TTY bolt in the harmonic balancer
13. Torque the new TTY bolts for the two timing chain sprockets

You seem to be very meticulous.

Thank you for the wonderful complement, and for all of your detailed advice

 

[Snowden]

PS I will be using the original Saab unmarked sprockets.

 

[Snowden]

I think the camshaft will be easy to rotate with the open ended wrench once I remove the old chain. I am 100% certain I have skipped links on the chain, which is why I want to "start over" as Steve suggested, and completely remove the chain so I can adjust the camshafts and the crankshaft manually into the correct positions. I think the only way to get them in the correct positions now is without the chain linking their movements.

 

[Snowden]

Unfortunately I am planning to remove the sump anyway because as I understand it, that is where the broken pieces of the balance shaft tensioner guide have likely ended up and they should be removed to prevent clogging of the oil system. What kinds of small parts will be dropping from the crank sprockets?

 

[Snowden]

Wow! This did seem like brain surgery. Did you get it all buttoned up and running, @Snowden? I've done a timing belt on a non-interference engine before. Twice actually because I screwed up the first time which is why I'm pretty nervous about attempting anything timing related on the 9-3. Might have to anyway with the noises I'm hearing in the engine bay.

Hi CarSnaab, I eventually did get this project completed and the car is now running, but not before I had to replace every valve in the cylinder head for fear I bent them when forcing the engine through rotation when it was out of time. In the end I learned a lot about the internals of the B207R and engines in general, so I'd say it was worth it.

I think the total cost was around $3500 including new radiator and intercooler because I dropped my car on the jack and crushed those two parts, and a new turbocharger center housing rotation assembly. If you're only doing the timing chain and don't make the same mistakes I did, I think the kit was only $200 and included a water pump. They sell cheaper ones without the water pump.

To avoid my mistakes, make sure you put the engine on time before you start undoing the chain guides. Use the timing tool (two aluminum blocks shaped to the correct cam positions) to achieve this. If your engine is not on time for whatever reason, don't rotate the engine.

 

[Snowden]

Wow, quite the post.
About to start my own b207r valve adventure; I've read through WIS a few times.
Did you get a chance to use WIS?

Hi, late to reply but yeah, I used WIS. I also watched a pretty good video on this subject:

 

[Snowden]

Curious if your old sprockets had damage or if you we're just taking the precaution of changing them while you were in there?

 

[Snowden]

It's been a long time since I thought about this but I'll try my best.

First, where did you read that you must put the engine at TDC for the 4th cylinder in order to use the keyed sprockets? In the ecotec timing chain video in my original post the guy says to use TDC1.

Next thing is, once you remove the chain you'll be able to independently rotate each camshaft and the crankshaft. You can just line up the top cam lobes at cylinder 1 so they face up and inward and fit into the cam locking tool, and rotate the camshaft such that the 1st cylinder is all the way in the up position and the timing mark on the crank pulley lines up with the mark on the timing cover. Just go slowly so you don't slam the valves into the pistons. You'll feel if they're touching - don't force it. Then you can put on the chains and line up the colored links with the dots on the various sprockets. This is basically how I remember doing it after I completely ruined my timing by rotating it a bunch of times without the tensioners on.

Bear in mind it has been a few years since I was in there so my memory might be a little hazy.

 

[Snowden]

Appreciate your advice. The TDC#4 was based on some of the advice by another in this thread when using the keyed Sprokets. Which kinda makes sense based on how the keys are positioned on these new sprokets.

So its currently setup at TDC#1 with cam locks on. I am confused at the next step as you would remove cam locks and rotate to get timing marks to match before removing crankshaft pulley and timing cover etc before removing the chain.

Based on what you're saying, I would just remove cam locks (even though currently at TDC#1), remove crankshaft pulley and timing cover. Remove timing chain. Then I manually move the Intake and exhaust back to TDC#1 and independently move crankshaft to timing cover mark?

I'll give it a go (I'll take it slowly )

The procedure I mentioned is what I did when I was pretty certain I had jumped a few teeth on the sprockets and it was how I remember fixing that. I don't think it is needed to go so far as to do that if you know your timing is correct. In that case you can just line up everything and replace the chain with the locks on. It seems there is some uncertainty if your timing is correct due to the diamond marks on your sprockets not pointing as expected, or maybe I misunderstood.

 

[Snowden]

Now I see what you were mentioning about #4 TDC:

For some reason, with the keys engaged these sprockets line up backwards if you use #1 TDC for the cam positions. So to make it all fit you need to use #4 TDC - the cam lobes pointing up and in.

If you are using the Saab sprockets and the alignment blocks then use #1 cylinder TDC position for the cams.

I kind of glossed over that in my job since I have the Saab unmarked ones, but that seems worth considering.