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what changes from a t5 to a t7?
I know one of the bigger changes in the ECU from T5/T5.5 to T7 is that T7 uses a mass airflow meter, but T5 estimates/calculates airmass from a combination of RPM, intake manifold pressure, and intake air temperature. As the name implies, Trionic 7 is really just an updated Trionic 5.5, and the two are more similar than not.
 

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1996 Saab 900 SE Turbo - Remapping the ECU via OBD2

I have a 1996 Saab 900 SE Turbo (B204L) - I assume it has the Trionic 5 ECU. In the past I have hooked up my laptop via an ODB2/USB cord and been able to read engine output via programs like digimoto, palmer performance dyno program, and a few others. I downloaded the Trionic5 ECU Program from http://trionic.mobixs.eu/ but never had the chance to run it. I believe I read that you can remap an original ECU from the ODB2 cord as long as it is the stock ECU but of course you have to flash it first. Is this true? can I remap it myself from the OBD2 and if I flash it am I going to run into any major problems while remapping it? (I intend to backup the original map of course) but I don't want something to go wrong leaving me with a broken ECU!

I don't want to have to buy a whole new ECU for more power gains and I don't want to have to tap directly into the ECU since I already have an OBD2 cord at my disposal or buy a new eprom and solder that into the ECU... PLEASE HELP!
 

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This is why t5/t7/t8 suite downloads come with a manual and documentation. Everything you need to tune and what to change in the maps is covered there.

If you go to mycomputer/localdisk/program files/Dilemma it is in there, or just go back to http://trionic.mobixs.eu/ and read the pdf's
 

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one thing that should be addressed is in order to live tune you must have a "ram unlocked" .bin flashed to the ecu. i've read the documentation but i still have no idea how to "unlock" it. i uncheck the ram locked box in the firmware menu but its always checked again when i go back into it. so if it always re-locks it self how the hell do i flash it with the ram unlocked?
 

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one thing that should be addressed is in order to live tune you must have a "ram unlocked" .bin flashed to the ecu. i've read the documentation but i still have no idea how to "unlock" it. i uncheck the ram locked box in the firmware menu but its always checked again when i go back into it. so if it always re-locks it self how the hell do i flash it with the ram unlocked?
Use the BDM interface to reflash the ECU with a firmware image that has had the RAM unlocked.
 

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does it 'have' to be with bdm? i have the ecu hooked up via can on the combiadapter. is there anyway i can do it with that or do i need to bite the bullet and solder some pins on the board?
 

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You could buy some pogo pins and clamp it to the board, if you dont want to solder. I think there's a write up on it somewhere on ecuproject
 

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I just ordered the CANUSB and DB9 connector from eBay. Is there a stage 1,2,3 file floating around that I could import into T5suite and flash my car? Because in theory this would then save me purchasing a tune correct?
 

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The T5suites can adapt existing T5 firmwares using its 'tuning wizard,' but as more parameters are changed as one steps up the stages, perhaps there is additional benefit to have someone experienced go over it all. The factory T5 setup has some wiggle room to adapt to the lower stage1 mods, beyond that, the justification for a pro dyno/wideband retune increases.
 

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The only tricky bit with that ebay USB canbus interface is that I'm not sure if the Trionic5suites would be compatible, so you might be left on your own on the software interface with the ECU if you go with anything besides a Lawicel canbus Interface or JohnC's CombiAdapter.
 

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There are only 4 supported adapters for trionic suites.

1. Combiadapter (Johnc)
2. UsbBdm (Johnc)
3. Deltawave lptbdm (ebay)
4. Lawicel canusb (?) never looked for one

Other adapters may or may not work.

Two diy adapter plans are available on ecuproject. Ones a usbbdm and the other is Justfortrionic(similiar to combiadapter). If you are handy with a soldering iron these will work.
 

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The only way to recover a bricked ECU is with a BDM device. The only person I know of that makes these is a guy that goes by the name of "Johnc" on ecuforums.com. Not sure if he is a saabcentral member.
I would have killed for a tutorial like this many moons ago when T5Suite came along, well done man! I have a JohnC BDM device, and you can re flash a ECU that a bad bin was written to, however I find many ECU's have bad flash chips and refuse to write; no matter how much voltage I use. Very rare I get a T7 box with bad flash chips though...
 

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I do not wish to detract from the author's very well written, informative, and concise tutorial but I feel I must comment on some parts of it as several things appear misleading.

The main issue is with the connections made to the ECU when bench flashing it. The author indicates that only 8 (eight) wires need to be connected to the ECU:





From the tutorial we are informed that:


  1. +15V from the power supply is to be connected to pins 1, 48, and 60 on the ECU (marked as a red dot);
  2. the Ground from the power supply is to be connected to pins 24 & 25 (pin 25 is not numbered/labelled) on the ECU (marked as a black dot);
  3. CAN_H connected to pin 62 on the ECU; and CAN_L connected to pin 63 on the ECU;

Now I count only 7 (seven) connections there; doesn't pin 65 on the ECU and marked with a red dot signifying +15V from the power supply also need connecting?


Would it be clearer to everyone concerned that pin 25 (Ground from the power supply) is also labelled/marked as such?


Now supposing the above additions are made and we count the number of connections to the ECU including pin 65 (+15V from the power supply) we have a total of 8 (eight).


These are pins 1, 24, 25, 48, 60, 62, 63, and 65.


I hope I am making sense so far?....?


Now I assume that pins 13, 23, 47, and 70 on the ECU (labelled in black) are highlighted simply for reference. It must be because those pins do not appear for any other reason in the tutorial.

The other issue I am having difficulty with is the 120 Ohm resistor, I cannot figure out whether it has to be soldered in parallel over Can_H and CAN_L; or whether the resistor has to be soldered in series on both Can_H and CAN_L. This is my main problem and I am hoping somebody can shed some light on it.

I hope the author of this informative tutorial will comment and confirm anything that is true and make this Sticky 100% error free. IMO it is all in the detail, the small things matter the most and when faced with the possibility of relegating your ECU to a paperweight then I consider it necessary to ensure that all information is watertight.
 

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The other issue I am having difficulty with is the 120 Ohm resistor, I cannot figure out whether it has to be soldered in parallel over Can_H and CAN_L; or whether the resistor has to be soldered in series on both Can_H and CAN_L. This is my main problem and I am hoping somebody can shed some light on it.


CAN_H and CAN_L are bridged by the 120 Ohm resistor
 

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Hey Boatguy, I guess you forgot to wrap quote tags around the text you selected from my post. Whatever, it doesn't matter any.

So from your use of the word "bridged" I understand that the 120 Ohm resistor is soldered in parallel between/across CAN_H and CAN_L. Have you done this yourself?

CAN_H and CAN_L are supposed to be twisted together for best results so where would you solder the 120 Ohm resistor? The only logical place would be at the spot where CAN_H and CAN_L are not twisted together and as close as possible to the CAN or SFI connector. Which doesn't give much room to manoeuvre.

Taking all the above into consideration and most important of all being able to resurrect a "bricked" ECU, I ordered a CombiAdaptor from johnc.

Compared to the Lawicel CANUSB interface the CombiAdaptor is so much more versatile which basically means that you're getting a lot more bang for your buck.

I'm looking forward to playing around with it but I have an awful lot of reading to do first.

Boatguy, I hope I can contact you if I run into any problems?...? Thanks.
 

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I have much more experience with t7 than t5, but i will definately try to help where i can. ;ol;

If you go with the combiadapter you can stop worrying about the resistor since the adapter has that built in. I paid 100 eur including shipping for mine. Its really a fair price considering you are getting two adapters in one.
 

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Thanks Boatguy, I look forward to it. There can't be that much difference between T5 and T7. I know that flashing a T7 ECU requires only 12V whereas the T5 ECU requires 15V.

Yes I noticed that the CombiAdaptor has the 120 Ohm resistor built in, it makes things a lot easier. Johnc has come up with a work of art in my eyes and it is well worth the money you pay for one.

I've just got to source a spare T5.5 ECU, some electrical components/adaptors/pins and a suitable power supply. Then I am good to go.
 

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This image isn't entirely "clear" for a 1st timer. They number other pins as reference, omit 25's number, etc.

For USB BDM (whether done thru combi adapter or dedicated JohnC USB BDM) the actual "dots" are what you are "supposed" to observe (blue and green can be ignored for BDM method) which can be misleading as they used "black" for the unused pins too, giving the impression 23, 70, etc. are negative. Page 124 in the one PDF file lists what each ECM prong connects too, but again a new person who has never looked at this before wouldn't know that as the PDF files (at least 2 different ones) cover a lot of vague info, and out of order. Plus it's confusing as to what's actually needed for the actual adapter you are using, and what's not. Not to mention some of the info was aimed at older devices, and you need to jump around through the PDF files to find info that's relevant.

Pins 1, 48, 60, & 65 are 15v+ (need at least 15v to flash, some need 18v, makes SURE it's DC and NOT AC coming from PSU) I recommend using shielded female spade terminals from Radio Shack in lieu of an actual ECM harness as alligator clips are a tight fit with the shielding on them. Try not to bump it during reading/flashing. Make sure it's on something that doesn't produce static, or conduct electricity (no metal work stations) and don't let the wires dangle- don't want a loose connection barely there.

Neg (-) ground pins are ONLY 24 and 25. (25 isn't numbered; these are what I used to read and flash mine)


Now, the "8" connections on T5 refer to the "8" pins you must solder to the board. T7 has "10" pins that need soldered. This is only needed for the BDM (background debugger mode) interface ;ol;

Another error in the literature is it states the ribbon wire must exit and face "away" from the ECM circuit board. The BDM wire supplied with my combi adapter did NOT work when the connector and wiring were facing "away"/leaving the ECM. Had to rotate it 180 degrees and "flip" it. Though, the 2 unused pin holes in the connector still overhung the same side. So, if looking down on the ECM while cover off, with the factory harness pins (used for power up) facing north/up, looking down from a top down perspective, the 2 "unused" pin holes hung over the right side, with the ribbon facing up/north towards the factory harness pins. If you consistently get an MCU "error" like "MCU won't stop" or timed out with BDM tool, and all 8 soldered pins are secure/properly soldered, try flipping the plug on the ECM. The combi adapter has a keyed BDM plug, so that won't get flipped unless you are using a generic cable.

If BDM Tool hangs (won't respond) when trying to close, or selecting "stop" or "exit", READ throws an error, you have the plug's unused "holes" hanging over the wrong side.
 
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