SaabCentral Forums banner

P0101

3.3K views 54 replies 7 participants last post by  Hooni  
#1 ·
So I've been fighting this code for past few months P0101. I have tried pretty much everything I can think of so I'll try getting help here. Car drives fine but CEL always pops up. So heres what I have tried already:
  • Another DI cassete
  • Another ECU
  • Boost leak test (with smoke)
  • 3 different OEM MAF's
  • Fixed MAF connector
  • Cleaned both MAP sensors
  • Checked vacuums
  • Cleaned APC valve
  • Electrician checked MAF wiring said it was good
After deleting the code I can drive 50-100 km and code pops up again. Any ideas because I'm out of them.. My friend told me this code cod be thrown because I have both cats welded out. Is this true?
 
#17 ·
In Germany original MAF is available for under 50 bucks.
I wonder why it is that expensive in Finland.
125€ might be a little bit more in Lithuania than in Finland, compared to income.
50 euros I could live with. 125 euros is 125 euros in lithuania also we just have a basic income of 600 euros monthly so it would be more than 1/6 of months income.
 
#21 ·
The % deviation is what matters...its used to indicate either a faulty MAF or an intake leak. If you don't have a true techIi reading I would just forget it as you need an accurate reading at idle & varying rpms...it's just a very easy & convenient way to rule out a MAF issue or intake leak in a few minutes worth of time.
 
#24 ·
Easy there tough guy...why didn't you mention you had good cheap used parts available (I certainly don't), all you said was a new one was too much for your income bracket so it sounded like you would have to do without.

My suggestion was an attempt to help but take it as an attack if you like, good luck with your car.
 
#26 ·
It wasnt my intention to sound rude but it kinda felt like a bit of an attack. Just trying to do the best with what I have man. And yeah Im working with a guy who dissasembles 9-5's for a living so I have access to very cheap parts and I can borrow stuff to check. Sorry again
 
#25 ·
Coming back to technical problems:
1. Could you borrow a tech II somewhere, it would make it easier.
2. Could you film a short WOT run in higher gear and display PBEF und PINL in openSID. Check that they are nearly equal with open throttle.
3. Same driving as 2. but with MAF and PINL shown. You can freeze one value with pressing set for a longer time until two * are shown, then scroll down to the other one.
AMUL not updating constantly is ok, it only updates if engine speed is between 1400 and 2750 rpm AND MAF between 135 and 350 mg/str. If LAMB is around 0 in these conditions, there is no need for further updates and it remains the same. Easy check is to pull fuse for ECU or disconnect battery, then it reset to 0, and do some driving. After a certain time it will update.
As AMUL is lower than +-17 % (AMUL reading in openSID is shown without dot, therefore 50 = 0,5%) only test 3 and 4 could trigger the error. Therefore there must be a deviation higher than 30%.
4. Do you have compressed air available? I suspect a leakage under higher pressure, up to now "only" smoke test at ambient conditions.
 
#27 ·
Coming back to technical problems:
1. Could you borrow a tech II somewhere, it would make it easier.
2. Could you film a short WOT run in higher gear and display PBEF und PINL in openSID. Check that they are nearly equal with open throttle.
3. Same driving as 2. but with MAF and PINL shown. You can freeze one value with pressing set for a longer time until two * are shown, then scroll down to the other one.
AMUL not updating constantly is ok, it only updates if engine speed is between 1400 and 2750 rpm AND MAF between 135 and 350 mg/str. If LAMB is around 0 in these conditions, there is no need for further updates and it remains the same. Easy check is to pull fuse for ECU or disconnect battery, then it reset to 0, and do some driving. After a certain time it will update.
As AMUL is lower than +-17 % (AMUL reading in openSID is shown without dot, therefore 50 = 0,5%) only test 3 and 4 could trigger the error. Therefore there must be a deviation higher than 30%.
4. Do you have compressed air available? I suspect a leakage under higher pressure, up to now "only" smoke test at ambient conditions.
I could probably find a guy to read codes with tech 2 but I couldnt borrow it to read live readings as thats what you would probably ask. I do have access to a compressor. And I will video wot pull after work just have to ask which is MAF reading you had in mind? Cant find a reading just called MAF.
 
#30 ·

Also got the video of the dash if it means anything. As you can see boost shoots up pretty quick with stage 1 ecu (needle used to jump up like half of yellow before) but it doesnt go anywhere. The max boost is pretty same with or without staged ecu - just barely touching the red.
 
#31 ·
Good news:
Pressure readings of both sensors show nearly same value, therefore I would rate them to be ok. Highly unlikely that both fail.

Bad news:
in second video CEL is already on, I assume it is P0101.
According to description, fault reaction would be:
Fuel adaptation zeroed. Intake pressure and intake air temperature is used as substitute values for the mass air flow sensor. This value is used for instance for fuel calculation instead of the value from the mass air flow sensor, which is considered unreliable.

I assume, AMUL should be reset to 0, but it shows a value different from 0. (But I do not know, if they just reset it to zero internally and still keep the value shown, never had and P0101 before).
If fault reaction is already used, we cannot trust MAIR anymore.
(From measurement, MAIR seems to be too high compared to inlet pressure, indicating a leakage. But I do not know if MAIR is still from MAF sensor or already replacement value).

Therefore:
1. Was CEL triggered by P0101, FCOD should state 257?
2. There are no other errors present? NERR = 1?
3. Could you do some testing without CEL already on, you said, it takes 50-100km, therefore reset before should grant some time for testing. Full load and medium load with boost at 300-500mbar might also help

4. I would still pressure test the hole system:
  • Remove rubber pipe between MAF and cobra, cover cobra with rubber glove, put some old piece of fabric over the glove and fix everything with a clamp or zip tie. (Or find fitting plug at home depot store, there is one robust rubber plug available which fits cobra pipe, at least I found one here).
  • Remove oil filler cap (just to prevent leakage blowing up the crankcase and pressing out oil or sealings)
  • Either remove bolt on top of cobra and plug thread, but it is not a normal thread (I think M16 x 1.5, do not use normal screw, it will ruin thread). Or remove tube at end of this pipe and plug the pipe there.
  • Disconnect rubber line from APC valve to cobra, marked with R, at APC valve and use this connection to inject compressed air with air gun. Reduce pressure to 0.5 bar at compressor before, do not blow up the engine with 10 bar.
  • Remove the evap valve, see here at 12.

Description above is similar to described testing in WIS.

Important:
Have you checked the check valve from throttle body to evap valve? very often they are shot. Remove tube at the back of throttle body and try to blow air in. It should be closed. If not, two things happen: you loose boost pressure and you increase backpressure for APC valve, as this line is connected to to R line, therefore APC is not working properly.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Yes the only code is 257 and nerr is 1. I doubt there would be any difference with or without CEL as I cant feel any when driving. So yesterday did vacuum test with compressor as you said. Heard some hissing around turbo/intercooler/intercooler inlet pipe. I couldnt pin down where its coming from. But the system seems not to hold the boost, you have to blow air constantly to see anything. I removed IC inlet pipe and there was some bruises on it. Im not sure whether it was leaking or not but changed that hose. Couldnt do much testing yesterday so just deleted the code and going to drive around for a day to see if the code appears again. From driving I cant say much changed. My 9-5 guy said it could be leaking air where cobra connects to turbo because clamp seems to be fitted sideways so hes saying that little stick around the clamp is probably broken.

The hose: IMG-20210929-211524
 
#34 ·
Yes the only code is 257 and nerr is 1. I doubt there would be any difference with or without CEL as I cant feel any when driving. So yesterday did vacuum test with compressor as you said. Heard some hissing around turbo/intercooler/intercooler inlet pipe. I couldnt pin down where its coming from. But the system seems not to hold the boost, you have to blow air constantly to see anything. I removed IC inlet pipe and there was some bruises on it. Im not sure whether it was leaking or not but changed that hose. Couldnt do much testing yesterday so just deleted the code and going to drive around for a day to see if the code appears again. From driving I cant say much changed. My 9-5 guy said it could be leaking air where cobra connects to turbo because clamp seems to be fitted sideways so hes saying that little stick around the clamp is probably broken.

The hose: IMG-20210929-211524
 
#35 · (Edited)
Image


Is this the cause of the code? I really doubt it, i think it will throw it again and then im not sure.. Maybe I will try to remove cobra and check o rings and clamps but my 9-5 guy said getting cobra on and off is a pain in the *** and I dont even have garage where I could access car from the bottom. Can you please explain also which check valve on the throttle body were you talking about?
 
#38 ·
1.
check valve is hidden under foam and integrated into hard tube.
#4

2.
Already exchanged tube might still have been ok.

3.
You should continue to find the source of hissing. If clamp on cobra is broken, it should be replaced.
O ring from cobra to compressor should also be replaced.
Other O ring from cobra to bypass valve might also be source of leakage.

4.
Alignment of cobra:
put it on the compressor, than fix it loosely with screw at engine bracket on top, to get a rough orientation.
fixing the clamp requires some patience and maybe a mirror to check position at the bottom.
If everything is fitted correctly, there should be nearly no gap between cobra and compressor.

As cobra will be dismounted: take pictures with phone and check play of compressor wheel, it should not move that much and there should be no scratches from wheel to housing.

5.
As from your readings MAF seems to be too high (but still unclear, if replacement value is already used). Leakage upstream of compressor would do the opposite, as unmetered air is sucked into the system.
Hissing could indicate that there is a leakage downstream of compressor.

6.
Constantly loosing air is ok, as normally one cylinder has an open intake valve. Blowby at piston rings decreases pressure, therefore you have to feed air.
That is the reason why oil filler cap should be open, otherwise you will blow up crankcase.
 
#39 ·
So yeah the code reappeared again ehh. So did compressor test again and there is definitely a leak where cobra connects to a pipe to a blow off valve. But as you said its upstream conmpressor so doubt this will be it also. There is also leakage around intercooler. I tried putting silicone and jb weld where I could reach. Seems to be leaking near IC inlet pipe but just bit further where plastic piece of IC meets honeycomb. Waiting for it to dry out and then gonna test it again. Dont really want to replace IC as I planned to do FMIC next year. I will report what happens in the evening after work. About that check valve, Im pretty sure there is no charcoal canister at all, or some sort of different system, because the diagrams that you linked doesnt seem to fit the engine in my car. It was 2.0 before and owner before me swapped whole engine so it could be that he just didnt install it or something.
Image
 
#42 ·
Engine before was 2.0l, and now? 2.3l? Does ECU fit to new engine?

Is leakage fixed now and now more hissing during pressure testing?
As long as there is any leakage (and a P0101) it doesn´t make sense to chase boost pressure in terms of tuning.

check valve seems already to be fixed from pre owner. Does it point into right direction? Arrow towards throttle. Charcoal canister might depend on version / MY. But in the video the EVAP valve is shown.
 
#43 ·
Engine before was 2.0l, and now? 2.3l? Does ECU fit to new engine?

Is leakage fixed now and now more hissing during pressure testing?
As long as there is any leakage (and a P0101) it doesn´t make sense to chase boost pressure in terms of tuning.

check valve seems already to be fixed from pre owner. Does it point into right direction? Arrow towards throttle. Charcoal canister might depend on version / MY. But in the video the EVAP valve is shown.
Yes it was B204 and now its B235 and yes ecu was changed to fit it. Had to go back to work and couldnt do much pressure testing after it. Biggest leakage is that pipe that goes to blow off valve and I couldnt fix it today because I didnt have parts. I didnt seem to notice any bubbling around cobra/turbo clamp. And I am not talking about bigger boost in tuning, I'm just guessing the boost doesn't go into red zone because of the leak and I thought if I fixed the leak the boost would increase. And if youre talking about that metal valve between red vacuum lines then I changed it and yes arrow is pointing towards TB. Will do more testing tomorrow.
 
#44 ·
Sorry for late reply. So did compressor test again and IC seemed to be leaking much less. Its still bubbling a bit when I spray soapy water and I wont be able to reach it to mend it all the way through. I got OEM o ring for blow off valve pipe and fitted it with sealant so it shouldn't leak no more. I didnt notice any other leaks. Another thing I noticed is misfiring on higher rpms when you take off foot of accelerator pedal. Is this normal or is it connected somehow?

 
#46 ·
Sometimes 95 but usually 98 octane. Spark pkugs are bprcs7es-11 and I changed them just few days ago. Im not sure about DIC but its OEM and it seems fine. And also i get missfires only when letting off the gas pedal if it was DIC im pretty sure it would missfire all around.