Sounds like you've broken the electrical switch in the ignition mechanism, the ignition lock barrel sits on the electrical switch - exactly how I'm not sure but the spring load is in the electrical switch and they do fail occasionally. I had an 89 N/A that had the same thing happen. I believe replacing the electronic switch will fix it. Can get one from eeuroparts or a wrecker.

You remove drivers seat, center console plastics, remove the center console (the metal unit with the 3 safety nuts) and then you just replace the switch (exactly how not sure never done it) but the job is apparently straight forward once you get there. It should be in Bentley.

While you're at it you can either disable reverse gear lock out (by moving the lever out of the way) or you can adjust the lockout. There is a pin in the bottom of the shifter that should measure 22mm +/- 1mm IIRC. The adjustment of this should also be in the Bentley!

Sorry to hear about your luck, it means you're close to victory though, just take it slow and you'll get there! D:

 

After everything you've been through lately with your Saab, you didn't think it would let you get final satisfaction without one more little issue... Did you?

This apparently means that you've got the vibration problem solved. Your car is just messing with you now! :cheesy:

 

After you've pulled the console and gear shift housing a dozen times in three days

you'll find the worst part of the whole thing is the stoopid carriage bolts that hold down the front part of the housing. Carriage bolts...only a toddler has hands small enough to get under the housing to slide the bolts up through the mounting slots. :evil:

But before you go tearing into that, did you check all the push-on connectors at the alternator and starter? I know in your "vibration" thread you were going through all possible suspects...

 

I will check the wires going to the electrical switch, but I don't really think it's that; the barrel actually feels stiffer to turn now, after whatever happened happened. I'm worried that it's the barrel since it's >$100 and worst of all will require me to have two different keys: one for the door and one for the ign. But since the spring motion is also gone, and it's been mentioned it's part of the electrical switch, is it possible the spring kind of wedged under or into the barrel and got stuck there? Or I'm going to need new parts? If it's just the electrical switch, I'm pretty sure I can pull one from the yard if they have a c900.

It sounds like in the meantime, if I turn the key to the "Run" position and short fat grey to fat red/yellow, I should be able to start the car and keep it running? How to shut it down after?

li Arc

 

. I'm worried that it's the barrel since it's >$100 and worst of all will require me to have two different keys: one for the door and one for the ign. li Arc

if you find it necesary to exchange the lock cylinder, a locksmith should be able to set both locks to match one key.

 

I was considering this as well, but wasn't sure if 1) the cylinders are as unusual as everything else about the Saab, making it very de-standardized and unusual for locksmiths to operate on, or 2) if this is less cost effective than buying a whole new set of locks (which would be 2 doors, ignition, and trunk).

Anyways, it looks like there is no c900 at the yard, so if it's possible for me to start and run the car with a broken barrel/switch for now, then that's what I'll do until everything else is fixed, namely the vibration. I may try pulling it apart and seeing if it's something I can repair by hand without buying any new parts.

li Arc

 

switch is $30 I would replace it rather than go hotwiring it, you could mess something else up. I think at this stage it would be worse to cut corners, but it's your car

For me I just picture a cooked starter or overloaded wiring or some other messed up story you will smack yourself for. You've coughed up a lot of dough I know but you're almost there.

http://www.eeuroparts.com/Main/PartDetail.aspx?id=8567505A

Definitely try fixing the switch, perhaps 16 saabs can mail you one of his spares? or someone else on here for that matter. They don't seem to fail often.

 

The age old problem for me isn't cost, it's time...it's going to take a few days for a switch to get here if I order national (also $30 + shipping), whereas I need to fix the vibration problem ASAP, most likely this weekend (1 business day left). What most people don't seem to understand is the weather here, which is still good at the moment, but every good day we get after mid-Sept is living on borrowed time. If I don't get this up and running by the time snow and 0 to -30C weather hits, the car's not going anywhere for another 7-8 months. You have no idea how painful even a battery swap was with 50km/hr winds at -37C is like, but I've been there, and there's a veritable dictionary of things I'd rather do than to go through that again. So I have to hit this weather window just right.

But yes, I do hope I can take the parts out, analyze it, and be able to tell how it broke and fix it. Otherwise, it also seems like there are a number of people here who have successfully hot-wired the car this way, maybe one of them can chime in and let me know if the description is correct.

li Arc

 

A new ignition switch arrived, and when I put it in, I wasn't able to feel a spring return neither. I took the old switch, and checked it for the return spring, and I guess I must've turned it the wrong way when I ordered my new ignition switch because the old one also had the spring return intact. Internally, it looks like all the gears in the lockout set were working correctly, not like much could potentially go wrong there anyhow. But what I was surprised to find was that when I put either switch in, I wasn't able to turn the key past where the spring force starts (ie. it would stay in the "on" position instead of going to the "start" position), but this wasn't a problem when the switch was removed. It's almost as if the force of the spring was too much to turn against using the gears. And yes, I tried to turn really hard, which 1) shouldn't be required, and 2) I've ruined many a key this way already, and I'm not going to ruin my only remaining key. My guess is that the gears get axial play or something and then misalign, is this true? I tried lubricating up the barrel, but no change.

What to do about this?

li Arc

 

Man, I dont have any suggestions but I am one on the side lines praying you get this car to a running state of being.

I thought my luck was hard but holy $hit you have had your fair share with this car; my hats off to your patience. I would have called the wrecker long ago and scrapped the project!

Hows the vibration issue coming? has it been sorted yet?

If my vert gives me this kind of trouble after my engine rebuild I am driving it strait into a retention pnd and leaving it there running!

I think its time you let someone else have a look; I know we all pride ourselves in the DIY but for the sdake of sanity roll it, tow it, pull it to a specialist and get a 2nd opinion.

its about time you drive this baby worry free!!!!!!!!!!! ;ol;

 

li Arc are you talking about the key barrel portion of your ignition or the actual switch part? It's the electrical part that has the spring and in my experience of farking things up, if you don't get it all together in the right order you won't get to "start" when you turn the key.

 

Well, obviously, using the key to start the car involves both the barrel and the ignition switch. I didn't tinker with the gears, they haven't been removed or anything. The spring in the electrical ignition switch is preventing the key barrel from turning. Without the electronic switch in, the key will turn all the way and gears appear to be functioning. With the switch in, I can't turn the key past where the spring starts to actuate: both the old and the new switch have proper spring action.

Since the electrical switch turns about 360* before the spring actuates, I tried setting the switch to 360* after its off position, and turning the key in case it was somehow the position of the gears that accentuates the effort required to overcome the spring, so the key would be in a much earlier position than it normally is used to start. But nope, even like that, the key couldn't overcome the spring effort, and I wasn't able to turn it past that point. If I manually put effort on the gears instead, I was able to overcome the effort and get the spring to actuate. What the heck went wrong? I'm guessing something with the barrel? I tried to look up how to remove the barrel so that I can investigate it, but the Bentley is very ambiguous as to which "hole" you insert a pin into to spring the barrel loose. A photo with them actually pushing the pin in the hole would have worked much better than the photo they have showing the pin seperate from the housing.

I saw a good condition '84 turbo at the yard, being sold as a whole car, supposedly ready to drive. I even went to ask about it, but it was already on hold. That's how much pain all this crap is putting me through.

li Arc

 

It's not something like the two gears are off a tooth so it doesn't turn far enough?

 

Nope, because it'll go all the way without the switch in. Plus, that wouldn't happen suddenly without warning, causing me to take the ignition housing apart in the first place.

li Arc

 

Electric Switch

If you suspect the electric switch is the problem, you can disassemble it for cleaning and inspection. I have done this to clean the contacts. There are 4 snap together tabs in the electrical switch. Depress two on one side and then 2 on the opposite side and the switch comes apart. The spring is in the switch. If you plan to replace the electric switch, what do you have to lose in case you break it? If you remove the electric switch, does the key move the tumbler and levers easily? If so, the electric switch is the culprit. Sorry for your struggles. I am following your vibration analysis with great interest. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

Just did a new barrel in the 89 S and had the same problem. Used a pair of pliers to turn the key to start the first time, and now it works like a champ. Possible there is a casting flaw that has to be worked on the first try. Of course now that I did that I hear the starter spinning freely, but not engage

 

I'd like to remove the barrel to inspect it, but the Bentley is ambiguous about it; where is the hole they're talking about? How did your remove the barrel? Getting to the 'start' position feels slightly loaded, more so than just turning the key in any other position, even without the switch there, which means something's bothering it positionally. Maybe something in the barrel.

I don't think the switch is the problem, actually, but I do think there's something amiss with the gears. They work and all, and without the switch in I can turn the key the whole way up to start, but I'm wondering if there's a load applied by the spring that they bind against their rotating shafts, or something. I tried using a pair of pliers to simulate that load instead of using the switch, but it took a LOT of force in order to stop the gears from turning, more so than the spring would have put. Maybe the switch is misaligned or something? I might try tightening the switch using the play it's got in position. Maybe I need to lubricate the gears?

One last question, crwchf. When you replaced the barrel, did you take the wafers in your original barrel and switch them into the new barrel, so that you can keep your key? Or perhaps if the old wafers are worn, you might have enough of a combination with the new wafers to reposition them exactly like the old wafers? Jim once mentioned that there are only 4 different wafers that Saab uses.

li Arc

 

I'd like to remove the barrel to inspect it, but the Bentley is ambiguous about it; where is the hole they're talking about? How did your remove the barrel? Getting to the 'start' position feels slightly loaded, more so than just turning the key in any other position, even without the switch there, which means something's bothering it positionally. Maybe something in the barrel.

li Arc

This is how I had to remove the barrel today. There is a little circle about 1/8th that is flush or slightly sunk in on the 90° indent. If you look at it from the drivers side looking to passengers it will be on the side of the indent closest to the rear of the car. If you punch that in, or in my case drill it out, with the key in the right position it will be able to be take out. If its not the right position it can't physically be taken out unless you drill through it.

 

Switch

The contacts in your electrical switch may be badly worn and catching at the start position. Why not open up your old switch per my previous post to check the condition of the electric switch innards.

 

The contacts in your electrical switch may be badly worn and catching at the start position. Why not open up your old switch per my previous post to check the condition of the electric switch innards.

He said he bought a new switch.

Good to know about disassembling, think my contacts are dirty. Is there a risk of breaking anything?

 

Electric switch

To disassemble, just be careful with the 4 snap together tabs not to break them. Also, be careful when opening up the switch as to where all components go. There are 2 very small coil springs that are easy to lose.

 

Unfortunately the old barrel had not only been removed, but destroyed by the PO. The hole they are referring to is on the LH side of the body. If it has not been previously drilled out there is a small plug that is visible from that side. The hole they refer to is on the same line as the plug, but under an edge of the plate that does the upper and lower covers. Another thing they don't mention is that if you put a wire or pin in the hole, you have to move the tip of the wire/tool toward the cylinder to push the pin to where you can remove the outer cylinder.

 

After a quick examination of the barrel, it seems to me it's apparent where the hole is, but that's not where the pin is, or at least, the pin isn't straight inside the hole. It looks like you need an 'L' shaped piece to push against the pin, because it's at a right angle to the entrance of the hole. Is that it? I can't imagine a more dumb way to make the hole; why not just put it on the side so you can poke it in straight? Or if that's a security issue, I'm sure there's a way to put it lower or something in the housing.

I haven't taken the barrel out yet, but I will re-examine it this weekend. Other thing is it seems harder and harder to turn the switch with the gears now, even before it hits the spring. Are the gears binding against their shafts? Perhaps the holes in the housing are wearing and allowing angular play in the shafts so the gears bind when force is applied to them? How does one go about removing the circlips holding the shafts in place? This is really, really annoying.

li Arc

 

Unfortunately I did mine with patience and two scribes to remove the circlips. And poked myself a few times in the process. It may be possible to use a set of miniature needle nose to act as a spreader. As to the binding, did you use a spray lube or dry lube on your cylinder? If you have not, you may need the hot water rinse. Debris, coffee or soda spillage can build up and bind. The Bentley explains further. Two of my car had the problem when I bought them and it worked well. Also keep in mind your neck of the woods it dropping temp rapidly and any lube that may be in the lock is starting to freeze up.
As to the cylinder, once the wire is in you move it toward the cylinder, along the axis of the cylinder. When the body was built, the bottom hole is for removal, the upper one was plugged since it was never meant to be anything other than a passage block.

 

I just took my ignition barrel out a few weeks ago and I can verify that you'll need a wire bent to 90 degrees. You don't need to press it in very far, and in my case I had the key in the right position and it just came right out. Good luck figuring it all out.

 

While of no use to you with your troubles (and I wish you all the best) I've quite enjoyed reading the discussion on the removal of the ignition lock barrel. Last week I got out of my 1993 SE having been called out to a road accident, went to lock the drivers door and found the ignition lock barrel attached to the key, don't know what all the fuss is about bent wire and drilling out pins, it's a doddle just switch off the car while climbing out of it in a bit of a hurry, it all falls apart quite happily.

 

Last week I was able to visit another Saab enthusiast in town, who had a wide assortment of ignition housings he removed from other junkers at the yard. We took the barrel out of mine, and sure enough, it was the barrel and not the gears or switch: it felt loaded in exactly the same way as before. The force required to turn the barrel from about mid-point to start was an increasing gradient, and I have a feeling something inside is worn enough that when a force opposes that motion (such as the return spring in the switch), the barrel binds. Unfortunately, a barrel is like $109 right now, which is a bit steep given my other problems I'm currently facing.

Luckily, the guy was offering to sell me one of his many ignition housings, complete with ignition switch, gears, and barrel, so I went through them until I found one with great action, and was on my way for 1/3 of what the barrel alone would cost. I could have just taken a barrel I suppose, but the reverse lockout gear spring popped and got mangled on mine, so I decided I may as well just get a whole new set.

Although tedious, re-installation was relatively straight forward. Once I popped it in, and tested it, I was good to go. Lesson here? New symptom: force gradient when turning barrel, can't get past the "run" mark to start = barrel problem. And no, it's not sticky with beverages; as there are no cupholders in the car, no one drinks in the car. Problem solved.

li Arc