... I hate the fact that Volvo owns Ford...

You were drunk when you wrote this, right?

 

Black Saab Rules!-Jerry Seinfeld

If you can prove that Seinfeld actually said this I will consider leaving this drunk post up :lol:

 

wow. i won't cover my tracks on that one. talk about a wrong reversal. Yeah, Volvo owns them alright :roll:

The black saab rules qoute is from an episode of Seinfeld. If you watched the show you'll know he drove a black 900 convertible.

 

I am going to add something here ...


On Saturday I was lucky enough to participate in a test drive event put on by Saab Canada.

The 9-7X (as good as I already knew it was) blew me away by it's handling and poise on the track.
At no time did I feel that it was getting away from me and handled everything I threw at it without any issue ... and I was pushing it to the limits they gave us for the 9-3 and 9-5 ...

Both of the instructors (certified racers) we also most impressed with the handling characteristics of the 9-7.

 

Check my signature and you'll see that I like well handling cars. My T/A has eibach springs, Koni adjustable rebound shocks, larger front and rear sway bars, 'vette zo6 brakes, poly bushings everywhere, well you get the point. I drive the car the way it was meant to be, and I've gone through my fair share of tires getting my full 1g of laterial grip out of it.

Before getting my 9-3, I drove an Explorer and was literally scared to drive it around turns because it felt so unstable and top heavy. Granted, it was ten years old, but I babied it around because of how unstable it felt. No wonder so many people rolled these things. In stark contrast to that is the 9-7x. Granted, I don't push it the way I do the t/a, but I've never felt scared going around turns at normal speeds. I drove probably a dozen different sport utility vehicles when we were in the market, and nothing gave me that solid, planted feel like the 9-7 did. It drives comfortably pushing it through turns on an on ramp to back road switchbacks.

For everyone bashing the 9-7, saying it's not a true Saab, go drive a trailblazer or envoy, then get into the saab and see how it feels.

Fact is, the high and mighty 9-3 sports sedan is just a chevy malibu with a turbo charged four banger. (I don't feel that way or else I would have bought a malibu).

 

Fact is, the high and mighty 9-3 sports sedan is just a chevy malibu with a turbo charged four banger. (I don't feel that way or else I would have bought a malibu).

On the contray, the 9-3 doesn't look like a Malibu (inside or out) and still is made in Sweden - the 9-7 just can't shake the family resemblance (Trailblazer) and that is it's biggest detractor.

 

On the contray, the 9-3 doesn't look like a Malibu (inside or out) and still is made in Sweden - the 9-7 just can't shake the family resemblance (Trailblazer) and that is it's biggest detractor.

My point was that the 9-3 is built on the same platform as the Malibu, just as the 9-7 is built on the same platform as the Trail/Voy. I own both a 9-7 and now a 9-3 because of the things that makes Saab's what they are. The attention to detail, and the sportiness of driving. In no way do I think a 9-3 is comparable to a malibu and in the same manor don't think a 9-7 is in the same league as the trail/voy's.

 

My point was that the 9-3 is built on the same platform as the Malibu, just as the 9-7 is built on the same platform as the Trail/Voy. I own both a 9-7 and now a 9-3 because of the things that makes Saab's what they are. The attention to detail, and the sportiness of driving. In no way do I think a 9-3 is comparable to a malibu and in the same manor don't think a 9-7 is in the same league as the trail/voy's.

It is nice to hear someone say positive things about both of these vehicles.

Having spent considerable time in both while not owning either, I can attest to the fact that they are fantastic at what they were built to do.

And having just watched 2 professional drivers toss the 9-3SS Aero around the way they did with passengers on board gives new insight to the design elements Saab built into the car.
And comments from the crowd (who just drove the same cars) we're "it's a race car" and "holy #&$*" and "unbelieveable".

And to hear a professional driver say that he was most surprised with the 9-7X and the SportCombis ... that is very high praise indeed.


I will say it one more time ... if you have any doubts about any car in the current or past line ups ... DRIVE THEM!

 

I followed a Burgundy colored 9-7 for about 15min on the freeway today and untill I got in front of it I thought I was following a Trailblazer - I am sure these SUV's DRIVE nice but they LOOK like a Chevy. Unfortunatley, LOOKs do play a big part in buying decisions and that might be a clue to why 9-7 sales are floundering.

 

I followed a Burgundy colored 9-7 for about 15min on the freeway today and untill I got in front of it I thought I was following a Trailblazer - I am sure these SUV's DRIVE nice but they LOOK like a Chevy. Unfortunatley, LOOKs do play a big part in buying decisions and that might be a clue to why 9-7 sales are floundering.

Was the SAAB emblem on the tailgate not a clue?

 

Was the SAAB emblem on the tailgate not a clue?

Hmmm... It's like putting a Porsche emblem on a VW beetle - the profile of the car defies the badge - especially from 2 or 3 cars back. I'm sure the 9-7 drives nice though.... Cheers.

 

Was the SAAB emblem on the tailgate not a clue?

Hmmm... It's like putting a Porsche emblem on a VW beetle - the profile of the car defies the badge - especially from 2 or 3 cars back. I'm sure the 9-7 drives nice though.... Cheers.

 

Hmmm... It's like putting a Porsche emblem on a VW beetle - the profile of the car defies the badge - especially from 2 or 3 cars back. I'm sure the 9-7 drives nice though.... Cheers.

If you look at a saab 9-3 from the rear, it looks like every other sedan on the road. Nothing really special going on in the back of a standard 9-3. Granted the aero's have dual tail pipes, but the standard 9-3's look like a jetta or malbiu from the rear.

 

Hmmm... It's like putting a Porsche emblem on a VW beetle - the profile of the car defies the badge - especially from 2 or 3 cars back. I'm sure the 9-7 drives nice though.... Cheers.

Well the Porsche - Beetle connection isn't that far fetched you know. Guess who designed the original Beetle.

:lol:

 

On the contray, the 9-3 doesn't look like a Malibu (inside or out) and still is made in Sweden - the 9-7 just can't shake the family resemblance (Trailblazer) and that is it's biggest detractor.

"Still", being the word of the day. In the not too distant future, it will be made in Germany.

 

If you look at a saab 9-3 from the rear, it looks like every other sedan on the road. Nothing really special going on in the back of a standard 9-3. Granted the aero's have dual tail pipes, but the standard 9-3's look like a jetta or malbiu from the rear.

What do you mean? 2 tailights, a trunklid (bootlid) and a bumper? Common this is silly! no lights are interchangeable on the 9-3, no sheet metal is shared and the visual stance is completely different. The 9-3 was designed as it's own car and shares only the platform - different drive line, interior, glass and sheet metal. The 9-7 comes off of the same assembly line as the Chevy in Moraine, Ohio. GM started with a fully built trailblazer and added a SAAB package to it (grille, suspension, wheels & tires etc)- it has Chevy driveline mostly Chevy sheetmetal, Chevy glass, mostly Chevy interior etc. This is more like what GM did with the 9-2x (Facelift and rebadge)than what SAAB and Alfa did with the 164/9000 (Platform Sharing) but I do admire your fierce loyaly to the 9-7x.

 

What do you mean? 2 tailights, a trunklid (bootlid) and a bumper? Common this is silly! no lights are interchangeable on the 9-3, no sheet metal is shared and the visual stance is completely different. The 9-3 was designed as it's own car and shares only the platform - different drive line, interior, glass and sheet metal. The 9-7 comes off of the same assembly line as the Chevy in Moraine, Ohio. GM started with a fully built trailblazer and added a SAAB package to it (grille, suspension, wheels & tires etc)- it has Chevy driveline mostly Chevy sheetmetal, Chevy glass, mostly Chevy interior etc. This is more like what GM did with the 9-2x (Facelift and rebadge)than what SAAB and Alfa did with the 164/9000 (Platform Sharing) but I do admire your fierce loyaly to the 9-7x.

Actually, you are mistaken. The 9-7 shares NO sheetmetal with the Chevy. It does share sheetmetal with the Buick Rainer, however, but there are distinct differences, obviously in the front, but also the rear. The interior is nowhere near the Chevy, or the Buick. Have you ever even seen it? Do a little homework. Have a nice day.

 

See the attached photos - I rest my case.

 

And I say again ... hold your superficial opinions to yourself until you have driven it.

Drive it side by side with a Trailblazer or Envoy ... your opinion about the performance of the 9-7X will change.

There is no question where the platform started ... let's get past that and move on.

 

See the attached photos - I rest my case.

GM has always been about taking a fairly popular platform and making certain changes to atrract other audiences. It makes good business sense.

Case in point, look at another vehicle I own, the Firebird. For years GM marketed both the Firebird and Camaro. Essentially the same vehicles, but talk to owners of the two vehicles, and you'll see that they are extremely loyal to their vehicle.

Your argument is like saying that an Escalade is just a Tahoe with a different front grill and wheels. They are very different in terms of ergonomics, driver comfort and overall driving experience.

Now if you were to argue that the Trailblazer and Envoy are identical, I could see that. Those two are essentially design differences, but very similar right down to options and costs.

Go down to your chevy or gmc dealership and drive one of the two, then go over to the Saab dealership and drive a 9-7x, you WILL notice the difference immediately. I know because I did exactly that. The two dealers were right next to each other and it was to the point that we drove the 9-7x, then the Envoy, then the 9-7x again, and finished in the Envoy one last time.

We kept going back to the Saab for the same reason someone would buy an Escalade over a Tahoe or Yukon. Sometimes sheet metal and options don't define a car.

 

See the attached photos - I rest my case.

Where's the Trailblazer?

 

See the attached photos - I rest my case.

Please read through this thoroughly:

http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2006/11/another_defence.htmlhttp://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/the_97x_this_is.html

 

Just a Trailblazer with the ignition key between the seats?

 

Only glaringly obvious parts sharing I see on the dash is the climate control and that gawky looking gear selector. I'm not a big fan of SUV's only because I'm not too keen on fueling them. But I've heard no bad reviews of a 9-7x. Most reviews are more along the lines of "damn, why aren't the rest of the platform mates this nice!'' Truth be told, my only fault with it is that there is no Aero version with a turbo (or two) on the 4.2 I-6. (as all proper saabs should have a turbo IMO) Or even the 4.5L Duramax TurboDiesel that I saw in Autoweek would be awesome. But as I don't see myself ever even considering purchasing one, I don't allow myself to judge it too harshly. In short, it's a good truck, if it's not what you're looking for, fair enough but your different criteria don't make it any less of a truck. Just makes it an excellent truck... for somebody else.

 

Just a Trailblazer with the ignition key between the seats?

Obviously you haven't driven the 9-7X. :roll:


Because if you had, you would have noticed at least some of the changes:

Those mechanical changes they all keep talking about in those reviews are listed in full below:

To ensure that the new 9-7X meets those expectations, the following enhancements were made to the chassis and suspension systems of GM's award-winning midsize SUV architecture upon which the 9-7X is based: - Ride height lowered by one inch

- Additional braces between the cross members and frame
- Firmer springs and shocks
- Stiffened and quicker steering
- Larger front anti-roll bars
- Larger brakes
- Specific Dunlop tires
- Limited-slip differential
- Specifically, here is a list of characteristic Saab driving dynamics and the enhancements that were applied to the 9-7X to achieve the desired results:

Steering (for on-center feel, feedback and precision)

- Toe-in adjusted from 0.1 degrees to 0.2 degrees
- Caster increased an average of 0.5 degrees
- Revised steering valve characteristics including a larger torsion bar
- Steering gear mount stiffened from 6,000 N/mm to 9,000 N/mm
- Intermediate shaft isolator stiffened 33 percent
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Additional braces between cross member and frame at the front

Steering (for response and linearity)

- Steering gear ratio lowered to 18.5:1 from 20.3:1
- Steering gear mount stiffened from 6,000 N/mm to 9,000 N/mm
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Additional braces between cross member and frame at the front
- Front anti-roll bar diameter increased to 36 mm from 34 mm
- Revised shock absorber settings for improved body control (average 70 percent more damping at the front and 20 percent more damping at the rear in the V-8 and 40 percent at the front and 10 percent at the rear in the L-6)
- Added front lower control arm bushing travel limiter

Handling (for stability)

- Toe-in adjusted from 0.1 degrees to 0.2 degrees
- Caster adjusted from 3.5 degrees to 4.0 degrees
- Steering gear mount stiffened from 6,000 N/mm to 9,000 N/mm
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Standard limited-slip differential

Handling (for linearity and predictability)

- Revised shock absorber settings for improved body control (average 70 percent more damping at the front and 20 percent more damping at the rear in the V-8 and 40 percent at the front and 10 percent at the rear in the L-6)
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Front anti-roll bar diameter increased to 36 mm from 34 mm
- Rear suspension upper link bushing stiffened from 4,600 N/mm to 7,000 N/mm
- Rear suspension lower link bushings stiffened from 3,200 N/mm to 4,600 N/mm

Emergency handling

- Standard StabiliTrak
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Revised shock absorber settings for improved body control (average 70 percent more damping at the front and 20 percent more damping at the rear in the V-8 and 40 percent at the front and 10 percent at the rear in the L-6)
- Standard air spring rear leveling
- Standard limited-slip differential
- Front anti-roll bar diameter increased to 36 mm from 34 mm
- Ride height lowered by 25 mm (approximately one inch)

Ride comfort (for body motion and control)

- Front and rear springs stiffened by 15 percent
- Revised shock absorber settings for improved body control (average 70 percent more damping at the front and 20 percent more damping at the rear in the V-8 and 40 percent at the front and 10 percent at the rear in the L-6)
- Front anti-roll bar diameter increased to 36 mm from 34 mm
- Standard air spring rear leveling
- Ride height lowered by 25 mm (approximately one inch)
- Front suspension upper shock mount is stiffer by 33 percent

Brakes (improved brake performance, response time, pedal feel and travel)

- Front caliper material changed from aluminum to stiffer cast iron
- Piston diameter increased to 48 mm from 45 mm
- Brake booster diameter reduced to 240 mm from 260 mm
- Master cylinder diameter increased to 27 mm from 25.4 mm
- Brake pedal ratio reduced to 3.6:1 from 3.8:1


I am going to say one more time ... drive the damn vehicle or save your comments.

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