Well, I read some articles of a very inexpensive fuel additive, Acetone. I read some things about how it can mess up your car, blah blah blah.

Are you a chemist? Have you considered the effects of using nail polish remover (acetone) in your fuel system and what it might do to the other components in your vehicle, like the fuel lines, especially rubber hoses, grommets, seals, over time? IMO, it isn't a very smart thing to do, especially since using acetone, paint thinner, mineral spirits, methyl hydrate (almost all the same stuff) will increase combustion chamber temperatures and make your overall engine temperature run hot, not a good thing when driving through a desert or up a mountain, with the a/c on.

It just goes to show what desperation will do. If you really want to save gas, i'd suggest changing your vehicle to a ford fiesta or similar tiny vehicle.

Buy the way, you never made mention to changing all the oxygen sensors, considering that there function is fuel metering and their function has a direct impact on fuel economy, I would have started there.

 

Well he tried the tornado so doesn't that explain it?:lol:

If you are so concerned about gas prices and I will admit they are horrible, then get a hybrid.

 

Well he tried the tornado so doesn't that explain it?:lol:

If you are so concerned about gas prices and I will admit they are horrible, then get a hybrid.

Hybrids arent that much better for mileage. Get a diesel if you want good mileage.

 

Hybrids arent that much better for mileage. Get a diesel if you want good mileage.

But diesel is almost 60 cents a gal more then gas.

 

I just figure the money I saved by buying my '99 9-3 SE convertible for $4500 instead of a new car will buy a lot of gas. At 21 or so mpg, I take it instead of the '00 Explorer (13 mpg) most of the time. (actually, the wife get's the 'vert & I drive the '99 Passat) Or, I ride the '99 motorcycle (40+ mpg) or take the bicycle depending upon where I'm going and why.

Since the high gas prices are probably here to stay, need to look elsewhere for savings. Now if I could just get my son ('91 Volvo 240) to either drive less or (better yet), buy his own gas, I'd be set.

 

But diesel is almost 60 cents a gal more then gas.

I too almost suggested to get a diesel, but yes, diesel cost more that petro now, plus their initial investment is also much higher.

The only way to save fuel is change your vehicle, change your driving habits/style, or just don't drive unnecessarly.

 

up here, gas and diesel are pretty much the same price. Diesels get 50+mpg depending on the model. Yes diesels cost more initially, but the engines are stronger and last much longer. You'll make you're money back.

It too bad we didnt get all the lovely diesel that the Europeans have accros the pond.

 

Ya, diesel is the way to go for fuel mileage. I'm really considering getting an older mercedes and converting it to run on WVO and BioDiesel. I have enough room for the machinery to make it and all you really pay for is the methanol and the lye. It is what the diesel engine was designed to run on, plus you can get upwards of 1,500,000 miles out of an engine thats properly maintained with bio and WVO. But.... SAABs are still more better.

 

it's a pity US saabs don't run on diesel, because i'd snatch one up in a second. home made biodiesel would be my reason. while the gas mileage isn't quite as good as petrol diesel, it's dirt cheap in comparison. that's why i almost went with Mercedes, until i couldn't find a diesel one.

the best thing you can do is stay off boost. then again, who wants to do that?

 

Yes... a turbo diesel four wheel drive viggen with some suspension, audio and interior mods would be THE perfect car. If only SAAB was still an independent company...................

 

Obviously none of you actually read my post, but what you wanted too; that is fine.

Gasoline is more caustic and corrosive than Acetone on rubber, plastics, and metal. Your fuel lines, etc run gasoline just fine, so they will run a slight mixture of Gasoline. It is NOT desperation, rather intelligence that has me seeking after fuel efficiency. I tried the Tornado because it was free. I know about the O2 sensor, but I chose not to replace that yet.

The fact that I've spent the last several weeks testing how Acetone affects various things, such as metal, plastic, an actual fuel injector and rubber o-rings, means I've taken the time to study its affect on those components. Nail polish contains water, as well as other chemicals, it's not just acetone. I am using pure acetone

I've read reports where people have been using acetone for 30,000+ miles with their car running strong as ever. I've also read reports of it destroying parts on your vehicle. I'm going with what I found out (that it doesn't do anything when you soak the components in a concentration 4 times higher than what you put in your car for 2 weeks and had no noticeable change other than the increased size of the rubber components, that increased when soaked in just gasoline (as my control substance).

It bugs me that people don't actually read what someone has wrote about the time they took to study it, but rather through in their own ignorant opinion about the subject...:nono;

Sno

 

How can this increase MPG

considering the fact 99% of the gas is getting burned in a properly tuned engine? How does burning that extra 1% result in a 10% (or 30% which is the most common claim) increase?

Also Acetone IS more damaging than gasoline on certain components, spill some on your paint while putting it in the tank and see for yourself. It's a more powerful solvent and engines are not designed to run with it in there.

 

despite the benefits it could have, there are so many possible things within the engine that are not designed to be around it that it would be very dangerous to use. you may be safe in your situation, but who knows? the next guy could find it blows up the engine or eats through a fuel line. this reminds me so much of the mythbusters episode where they actually tried it too and don't recommend it. what next? mothballs for an octane boost?

 

Obviously none of you actually read my post, but what you wanted too; that is fine.

Oh... but I did...., and that is why I wrote my opinion here, which has its own merit. I have customers bring in their cars for an emissions test after it failed, they tell me they put methyl hydrate, injector cleaner, "guaranteed to pass" crap, varsol, ect. into there tank and the car fails even worse. I know it won't pass, but hey, i'll take your money to do the test just for being stupid. Until you see the results for yourself, then you'll believe it just a scam.

The fact that I've spent the last several weeks testing how Acetone affects various things, such as metal, plastic, an actual fuel injector and rubber o-rings, means I've taken the time to study its affect on those components. Nail polish contains water, as well as other chemicals, it's not just acetone. I am using pure acetone

I've read reports where people have been using acetone for 30,000+ miles with their car running strong as ever. I've also read reports of it destroying parts on your vehicle. I'm going with what I found out (that it doesn't do anything when you soak the components in a concentration 4 times higher than what you put in your car for 2 weeks and had no noticeable change other than the increased size of the rubber components, that increased when soaked in just gasoline (as my control substance).

But your methods to "analyze" acetone and its effect on an engine and its components it flawed. Soaking components in acetone is not the same as running it through your engine. There are many more variables that you're missing, for example, fuel is pressurized in a fuel injected vehicle at all times, even when the vehicle is off. What is the long term effects of pressured acetone on fuel line components? How about heat, the heat from the engine, the exhaust manifold. The "mixed" fuel may encounter heat before and after arriving at the fuel injector, and even when it returns to the fuel tank. How does heat affect acetone when mixed with gasoline under pressure? Then there is the injection of acetone into a very, very hot cylinder.....

I suppose its your car, you can do what you want with it, but think about this, you think the engineers who built your car don't know the properties of acetone and other mineral spirits? If they wanted your engine to run on it, they would have engineered it to do so. They designed and built the car, (as well as aircraft for that matter), I wouldn't second guess them.

You're probably better off experimenting with kerosene, at least that is a known fuel.

Do whatcha want, to each his own....

-----------------------

Click and Clack Talk Cars

By TOM AND RAY MAGLIOZZI - 01/21/06

Dear Tom and Ray: Last week my neighbor gave me an 11-page treatise on the benefits of putting a small amount of acetone in your gas tank: an increase of 25 percent to 35 percent in gas mileage with NO damage to the engine.

The article tells how much acetone per number of gallons and gives the rationale for why it works. I am NOT knowledgeable in the workings of engines, nor do I have knowledge about fuels, so I can be snowed by people who may or may not know what they are talking about. I value your opinions. What do YOU think about this? — Wil

TOM: It’s bo-o-o-o-gus, Wil. With four “o’s.” Don’t put acetone in your gas tank.

RAY: It does absolutely nothing to increase your gas mileage. We spoke to a
fuel-systems engineer who works for one of the major oil companies. He said that because of all these rumors floating around on the Web, his company tested acetone in its own labs and found no increase in mileage. None. And he said the equipment is precise enough to detect anything over a 1 percent difference.

TOM: But it’s worse than useless — it’s also harmful. Acetone is the primary ingredient in nail-polish remover. And while it will burn and is a high-octane material, it’s also a very powerful solvent. So while it’s in your fuel system, it’ll be eagerly dissolving all of your rubber components ... like gaskets and O-rings.

RAY: In fact, some cars have a rubber hose in the fuel line that goes between the fuel-cap assembly and the tank. When you add your acetone, pouring 100 percent, undiluted rubber-eater right onto that tube, you’ll be eating through it in no time.

TOM: Here’s our final reason not to use it: It dissolves paint. So if you slip and spill a little bit outside your fuel filler door, you’ll have a nice, unpainted line running down to the bottom edge of your rear quarter panel. When we see you drive by, we’ll know you didn’t take our advice!

 

There are a lot of reasons WHY engineers do not put certain additives in vehicles. Why doesn't the US have 93+ octane everywhere, even though it's been PROVEN that vehicles with fuel injection systems have a substantial increase in gas mileage when the fuel is refined to 93+ octane?

When it comes to the efficiency of burning gas in a vehicle, it would be great if the a/f mixture was ALWAYS 14.7/1, but it RARELY ever is because of variations in barametric pressure just driving down the road. Cars are NOT designed to be 99% efficient because they can't be due to gasoline regulations (additives and conditioners).

Acetone is a better solvent on paint because of the exchange of molecules. When you use acetone to clean of paint, the bonds that hold the paint to your wall/car/shoe/other paint/whatever is broken because acetone affects the hydrogen bond due to the arrangement of elements in it's chemical compounds.

Since Acetone has a fairly low volatility level, I didn't find it necessary to heat or pressurize and see it's affects. Raising the temperature an indeterminity amount of degrees during my testing does nothing because Acetone is still acetone at 80*F or 150*, the only difference is the space between each compound.

I didn't see the episode on Mythbusters so I cannot defend against the show's findings. But, I can comment that by adding too much acetone WILL absolutely adversely affect your fuel economy. What where their findings on it's affects on the actual fuel system? Did they find anything or did they just "think" that it would cause problems?

 

I don't know, I used acetone to remove the vinyl on the outside of the doors on my 9-3. It was the only thing that got it off. I tested under the hood first and it did nothing to the paint. Mind you, this was only nail polish remover, so it was diluted.

This actually does seem like a good idea. I'm just not ballsy enough to try it.

 

Mythbusters took a look at this and a number of other ideas (water2gas etc). With the acetone, they found an initial increase which lessened on subsequent tanks. They thought it basically just did a little cleaning action similar to a good Fuel Injection cleaner (www.discovery.com/mythbusters)

 

When it comes to the efficiency of burning gas in a vehicle, it would be great if the a/f mixture was ALWAYS 14.7/1, but it RARELY ever is because of variations in barametric pressure just driving down the road. Cars are NOT designed to be 99% efficient because they can't be due to gasoline regulations (additives and conditioners).

So how much fuel are cars designed to not burn? And wouldn't a car spitting out 10% or 20% unburned fuel fail an emmisions test and destroy the cat? And wouldn't that indicate a mechanical problem that a fuel additive would not be able to fix?

And are you sure you're not confusing the overall efficiency of the engine design with how much fuel is utilized in the combustion chamber? Nobody said the engine itself was 99% efficient, it's certainly not as evidenced by all the wasted heat.

 

There are a lot of reasons WHY engineers do not put certain additives in vehicles. Why doesn't the US have 93+ octane everywhere, even though it's been PROVEN that vehicles with fuel injection systems have a substantial increase in gas mileage when the fuel is refined to 93+ octane?

When it comes to the efficiency of burning gas in a vehicle, it would be great if the a/f mixture was ALWAYS 14.7/1, but it RARELY ever is because of variations in barametric pressure just driving down the road. Cars are NOT designed to be 99% efficient because they can't be due to gasoline regulations (additives and conditioners).

If it has been proven that higher octane fuels give better fuel economy, then why am I getting better fuel mileage with 89 octane rather than 91?

Also, Internal combustion engines, or any engine at our level of technology cannot be 100% efficient. For something to be 100% efficient, the High temp - low temp/high temp would have to equal 100% or its equivalent. Here is an example, and the temps would have to be in Kelvin (K) for this to work. The high temp is 100K, low temp is 0K(theoretically and currently impossible). Using these givens, we see that the efficiency is at 1 or 100%. If the low temp(intake) is even 0.0000000000000000001K higher, then we will not see a 100% efficient engine. Current internal combustion engines are only about 24-36% heat efficient. No where near the number you posted. Plus, this would involve bringing the intake temp to Absolute Zero, so we know that isn't happening. Even space isn't at AZ.

 

higher octane may mean better fuel economy on some cars, but not saabs with trionic. the ECU limits boost when lower octane fuels are used, as we all know. less boost=less air going into the cylinders=less fuel being injected for the proper mix. all in the end, less fuel consumption and better fuel economy, if a miniscule improvement. so for reducing fuel economy, judging by how trionic works, i wouldn't be pouring acetone into my car ever.

 

And wouldn't a car spitting out 10% or 20% unburned fuel fail an emmisions test and destroy the cat?

it's not necessarily unburned (hopefully not, at least), it's just suboptimal for emissions. 14.7:1 is the stoichiometric ratio for optimum burn, but engine management pushes it lower (more fuel) for more power.

on engine efficiency - KC9-3SE is talking about the Carnot cycle; this is a model of an engine operating at minimum entropy change. the model is of an engine operating on the difference in heat between two reservoirs, and its efficiency is 100% only when (as mentioned) the lower reservoir is at absolute zero. we've never hit this, and quantum mechanics says we can't, ever. an internal combustion engine operates nowhere near minimum entropy, and so will have a much lower efficiency, even with everything else perfect.

Also, Internal combustion engines, or any engine at our level of technology cannot be 100% efficient.

a minor quibble - no level of technology will hit 100%, as long as physics exists as we understand it... i could explain, but i'd have to brush up on my quantum thermodynamics first... it's been a while...

 

I just had knee surgery and I'm on pain meds right now, but I didn't want you to think I wasn't going to respond. Give me a few days to come off the meds and I will respond.

 

I have found two things that actually DO work for increasing fuel efficiency:
Fitch Fuel Catalyst, which actually increases the octane of gasoline by 3 or 4 points, and Pulstar spark plugs, which give a greater burst of electricity and burn gasoline more completely (though this isn't recommended for highly modified or higher-pressure turbo engines). Together, you can get something like 4-5+ mpg more. Contrary to popular belief, not all gasoline that enters the cylinder is completely burned; some remains as liquid vapor, because fuel injectors cannot atomize gasoline into a mist of droplets smaller than a few microliters. The fact that the gasoline is still liquid, has some surface tension, and is not actually optimally mixed in the intake air, all contribute to a less efficient burn cycle. Now, if we could get ink-jet printer cartridges to spit out useable quantities of gasoline at droplets the size of a few picoliters, then we'll be on to something.

But I'm working on getting a combustion engine to run on hydroxy gas. It can be done, it has been done, I just don't have the time right now to get everything together to build a prototype for a lawnmower engine that I don't have. To the junk yard!

 

do the Pulstar plugs work properly with the trionic system in order for it to detect knock? i'd gladly get better plugs as long as they don't mess with knock detection.

 

Acetone's effect on gasoline is not helping you. Period. It's been tested by everyone under the sun from Popular Mechanics to Mythbusters to at least 3/4 of the bitog forum as well as tons of hypermilers. What you did discover is an effective fuel system cleaner, more so than what you were using. Actually, it's pretty much the homebrew mix I use:


acetone
methyl ethyl ketone
denatured ethanol alcohol
toluene

Pretty similar in composition to Berryman B-12 Chemtool, actually. You could see better mpg by at least using this periodically, though, if it keeps your fuel system and combustion chamber in tip top shape.