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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I came from a 222hp Nissan Maxima to a 2.0 LPT 9-3 vert (185hp) then now the 9-3ss Linear (175hp), all with auto. Seems like downgrading everytime, but my seat-of-the-pant experience tells me its the other way around. On paper the Maxima seems to be the most powerful, but it just didn't feel that way.

I was wondering if you could share your experience on other cars with more power (on paper) comparing to Saab's wonderful 2.0t or 2.0T. I know the torque curve has alot to do with that, as some peaks really late in the rpm range, like TSX and RX8.

Don't mean to degrade any other cars, but I heard somewhere that 9-5 Aero can actually out run a 911turbo from 80-120 km or mph, now that's impressive! Do any of you know of any somewhat similar real-life comparison to 9-3ss?

Yes, rattling really spoils some of the fun in driving 9-3ss though.
 

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I hate to break it to you, but butt dynos are really innacurate. If your wondering why the saabs "feels" faster its because the tourque down low.
 

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benotone said:
I came from a 222hp Nissan Maxima to a 2.0 LPT 9-3 vert (185hp) then now the 9-3ss Linear (175hp), all with auto. Seems like downgrading everytime, but my seat-of-the-pant experience tells me its the other way around. On paper the Maxima seems to be the most powerful, but it just didn't feel that way.

I was wondering if you could share your experience on other cars with more power (on paper) comparing to Saab's wonderful 2.0t or 2.0T. I know the torque curve has alot to do with that, as some peaks really late in the rpm range, like TSX and RX8.

Don't mean to degrade any other cars, but I heard somewhere that 9-5 Aero can actually out run a 911turbo from 80-120 km or mph, now that's impressive! Do any of you know of any somewhat similar real-life comparison to 9-3ss?

Yes, rattling really spoils some of the fun in driving 9-3ss though.
I came down from 250hp Nissan Maxima (VQ35DE) 6 speed into 9-3 Vector (210hp 6 speed). Maxima was a 6 second car and power was HUGE! Tourgue steer was huge too..... Maxima was just to big for me, that's why I sold it. Power in my Vector is fine, plus I am getting 34mpg on a highway compared to 27 in the Maxima. But still, you cannot beat the all mighty VQ35 with hardly anything other then some V8s. Saab definitly has a very good feel once you are rolling in 2nd or 3rd gear, but off the line it is sssslllllowwww...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Totally agreed on your view of the VQ6, very buttery but think their 4spd auto (last gen) robbed a lot of the power from it as I just didn't have the kind of punch that my last 185hp LPT w/ 4spd auto gave me. But somehow, I find Saab's torque is much more usable.
 

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rugbybrado said:
I hate to break it to you, but butt dynos are really innacurate. If your wondering why the saabs "feels" faster its because the tourque down low.
I agree.

I find that automatic gearbox on Saab has more "elastic band" effect. They must have engineered the torque convert for much higher torque multiplication at the beginning of acceleration. That combined with turbo boost coming in, it definitely gives you the feeling of accelerating fast.

As for 80-120km/hr, may be with an old 911turbo, definitely not the new breed. This summer, I had chance to drive 2003 911turbo and I couldn't believe how hard it pulled through all the gears. Amazing car.
 

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benotone said:
I heard somewhere that 9-5 Aero can actually out run a 911turbo from 80-120 km or mph, now that's impressive!
Maybe in top gear? At 80 km/h, an old 930 will be chugging along at less than 1800 rpm in 4th gear making 100 hp at the most. That doesn't make for breathtaking acceleration!

/ J
 

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It's all about gear selection and RPM and boost and......way too tricky in my new Aero to really "Drive it like I stole it!" mmm, 930, that's what I am talking about, call it what it really is...
 

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My previous car was a 150HP/210NM VW Passat 1.8T. It was a rather boaring car to drive until an Oettinger 195HP/295Nm stage 1 upgrade was installed. To be honest, I think the Passat was faster from 0-60mph than the my Aero but that's not comparing apples with apples as the Passat was a manual and the Aero is an auto. My guess is they'd be pretty similar if they had the same gearbox.

The gearing in the auto is not what I consider optimal for acceleration but 3rd gear in both cars gives a similar km/1000rpm. This is where I can feel the biggest difference between the two cars. The torque band is much wider and the push in the back feels stronger.

While the 210HP/300Nm from the 2.0T is a great start, I still find myself wanting more. I think I've convinced my wife that I should get the BSR stage 1 upgrade for Xmas. I think 247HP/388Nm will keep me happy for the immediate future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I will try and grab that article on 9-5 vs 911turbo and post it here, its on one of those British mags.

Don't think they would publish such unfair acceleration comparison with Saab in 3rd gear while Porsche is in 5th or 6th.
 

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maybe my 93 is different, but i do not notice a whole lot of torque until i get into 3rd gear...is that considered low end torque? i thought low end torque was like that of a mustang and other 1/4 mile fast cars. i am really inpressed with my saab between 30-70 miles an hour, but not so much from a dead stop...........
 

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Don't get me wrong, my Aero is no slouch, and it is fun, but reality is that it is not "race car." With, or without, a few go fast goodies, it is a great car.
 

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tnkr111 said:
Don't get me wrong, my Aero is no slouch, and it is fun, but reality is that it is not "race car." With, or without, a few go fast goodies, it is a great car.
I drove a manual saloon with the 250 bhp Hirsche kit and I beg to differ :eek: that car was a monster and would hold its head up with all the best of the pack....
 

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Deli-Llama said:
My previous car was a 150HP/210NM VW Passat 1.8T. It was a rather boaring car to drive until an Oettinger 195HP/295Nm stage 1 upgrade was installed. To be honest, I think the Passat was faster from 0-60mph than the my Aero but that's not comparing apples with apples as the Passat was a manual and the Aero is an auto. My guess is they'd be pretty similar if they had the same gearbox.
Aye, dont forget the auto is rated about 1.5 secs slower than the manual on 0-60mph. It might be subjective, but the paddles on my auto aero can release ridiculous acceleration in first - I remember flooring it once to pull out quick in first - the car made it to 30mph in about 10-15 meters uphill - the wife looked astonished (and shes used to my pedal to the metal habits).
 

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smurkenstein said:
Aye, dont forget the auto is rated about 1.5 secs slower than the manual on 0-60mph. It might be subjective, but the paddles on my auto aero can release ridiculous acceleration in first - I remember flooring it once to pull out quick in first - the car made it to 30mph in about 10-15 meters uphill - the wife looked astonished (and shes used to my pedal to the metal habits).
Not sure that the rating stands true though.
The new 6 speed is 1 tenth of a second slower as an auto box compared to the manual, and hirsch also show figures for the 5 speed boxes that gives the manual between 10 and 20 ms better acceleration over the auto. So I don't think that there is as much of a difference performance wise. I Have these figures on a hirsch PDF file if you are interested...
 

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smurkenstein said:
(I actually think the Hirsch "standard" ratings might be wrong)
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Hi,
I have posted my version to you :)

I have the same figures as you are quoting, and it seems that even Saab quote 9 seconds in the tech specs, I am pretty sure that these faster times are using the manual side of the box vs Saab using the D mode

who knows :confused:
 

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rugbybrado said:
I hate to break it to you, but butt dynos are really innacurate. If your wondering why the saabs "feels" faster its because the tourque down low.
Torque down low is important, but i think there is another reason why Saab feels so fast. It's the *change* in torque, not the torque itself.

Torque is basically how fast your car accelerates. More torque = faster acceleration. NA cars give you 100% of available torque as soon as you punch the gas. You floor the gas, you get the torque. I understand that in turbo cars the torque goes up as the turbo spools, i.e. you get some as soon as you punch the gas, but then you get more and more torque as boost builds. The awsome butt-dyno feel of Saabs comes from the change in torque. The "acceleration of acceleration," if you will.
 
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