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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey there, I'm from Wiseco Piston (Cleveland, Ohio). I'm putting together a list of engines we may want to produce pistons for in mid 2008. I've done about two days worth of research on the 2.0 and the 2.3 turbo (b234 type) engines and it seems to me one part number could satisfy the needs of the 2.0 and the 2.3. The 2.0's would be a bit low in c.r. (8.1:1)and the 2.3's would be standard 9.2-ish compression (due to the stroke). I could reduce the dish volume a bit and net 8.5 and 9.5 respectively if people weren't worried about raising their compression on the 2.3's.

From my research here, it also seems that a 2.3 (235r) type forged piston is also needed...I hadn't originally thought about it, but if there's a sizeable need...we may be able to fill it.

To make it a catalog stocking part, we REALLY need the block deck heights of the 2.0 and 2.3 blocks along with head gasket thickness. I've read somewhere that deckheights changed at some point as well. When I start calculations based off the o.e. dish volumes I've done in the past...things aren't adding up. I've read that the chamber volumes are about 48cc for the 2.3's..but there may be a change in that for the 94 and up cars. The 2.0's are 46cc from what I've read. The rod lengths seem to be 153mm in the b204's, 159 in the 205's, 147 in the 234's, 153 in the Naturally aspirated b234I, and 153mm in the B235r/e. I'll definitely need to have all that information correct before publishing a new catalog as opposed to calling out a bore and a "iffy" compression ratio like some other companies do. If we need to make the pistons for "Piston guided rods", that's important. We can leave the notch in for the squirter. We can put valvepockets in for the '94 and later heads if needed...they would just be along for the ride on the earlier heads.

We've been pushing our technology into the "sport compact" piston line since 2002. Coated skirts, Nitrided/Napier Steel ring package, and offset pins to reduce noise. We normally use 2618 alloy because it's stronger, but we may go 4032 on the Saabs because a lot of miles are put on them, but it's up to you. We offset the wristpins on our pistons like the o.e. to reduce noise, so either alloy has good manners. The price is very good for the quality and features of these parts.

Please let me know what you think...how far I put these up on the "to do" list depends on your feedback
If you want, you can email me at [email protected] My thanks to folks here for their help in advance...you're doing the saab community a service.

-Brian Nutter-Wiseco Piston
 

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I'd post this in the 9000 and NG900/OG9-3 forums, with the c900s the transmission really can't handle too much power, so very few people run more than the stock pistons can handle because once you get to that point you'd just be shredding boxes.

*but don't let me speak for everyone :D *
 

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Any chance the pistons would be lighter than the stock items? There are some people interesting in building high revving engines for the c900, to make big power without gearbox killing torque.
 

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I use Wisco Pistons in my snowmachines. Change them every year regardless of state. I usually put more than 2500 miles a year on them. A quality piston and none have ever failed. And yes the Wisco pistons for my sled are lighter than stock, and you can tell when revving. I've gone thru six sets. And yes I would buy Wisco if they made them for my motor and I needed a new piston set.

pierre
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hey there, yep I listed in all the forums I could. It's hard to make a piston as clunky as the original. The ring pack would be light years ahead of o.e. Less friction, more power. The piston itself would be lighter and stronger at the same time. The b202 piston is the same height, bore size and pin diameter..just a bit less chamber volume if I remember correctly. the 16v head is 42cc from what I can learn from some posts...that should make this piston useable in the 202.


We make all sorts of pistons..on the Automotive side we've got a huge selection of japanese offerings, but we're bringing the European engine codes on..that should add competition to the marketplace and benefit Saab owners quite a bit.
 

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I wouldn't mess with pistons in the older B202, JE & a few other companies make them (that's what I use in my SPG actually). There isn't enough of a demand for them due to how strong these engines are as well as how weak the trannies are. Plus many C900 owners do not want to spend more on the car's pistons then what they paid for the car itself. Also, we cannot push our stock engines HP up enough to brake pistons due to the trannies blowing up way before that would happen.

I would concentrate on the newer stuff, B235 engine especially. The B234's are almost 10 years old now & some state they are good for 450 HP or more. Also probably 97% of saab owners B234's develop nowhere close to a number where new pistons are needed. The B235's seem do eat pistons around 300 whp so that's something that could be considered. I need a set for my viggen actually :)
 

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Bnutter, can you give us some information what is the catch in Wiseco pistons for the end users compared to the already existing pistons which are availble for most saab motors (B2x4, B2x5), from JE, Wössner, Venolia etc?
 

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There are some of us in the C900 tuning community that would be interested in playing with newer/lighter pistons for the B202.

I'm going with a larger turbo & manifold to move the power band higher up in the RPM's, and with a lighter piston, the RPM limits may be able to be raised.


I know GenuineSaab rebuilt a viggen engine & that engine should rev to 9500rpm safely. Imagine what a C900 would do if it could rev to even 8000rpm safely.


Limit the torque down low, move it to mid-top range, and increase RPMs and you'd be able to see a C900 put 300-350hp to the wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm sorry, but to say much about the differences between a Wiseco and the others would be "tooting our horn"...which isn't my aim here. I wouldn't want to overstay my welcome in the eyes of a moderator :) I'm heading to PRI and I'll be incommunicado until monday. Have a good week!
 

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amish_geek said:
Imagine what a C900 would do if it could rev to even 8000rpm safely.

Limit the torque down low, move it to mid-top range, and increase RPMs and you'd be able to see a C900 put 300-350hp to the wheels.
It doesn't take much to get a C900 to rev to 8K +. Mine does however due to how the power is delivered there is no reason to rev it past my 7400 rpm redline. The power drops off so much that it's simply not needed. I know it's my cam's that are the culprit & every cam that I tried killed the response under 5K which isn't something I wanted to deal with.

C900's are a LOT of fun, it just gets VERY expensive when you want to get over 300 whp. Not simply due to the stand alone ECU that is needed, the large turbo or the minor engine work. But due to the trans & what it takes to make that strong & also fining a LSD.
 

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IronJoe said:
No mention of B202?
Or B201 for that matter. :cool:

After all piston options for B201 8V and B202 16V engines can expand the options for creating engines intended for specific uses, or just to produce engines that are more capable of working hard without killing other things (like manual transmissions).

It would be good to have some modern equivalents to the 7.2:1 pistons used in the non-APC 8V turbo engines (like the one in my 81 turbo), or even some 8:1 pistons used in the APC-equipped 8V turbo's. I don't think there's anything available after-market to do the job if I ever needed to rebuild the engine and required new pistons, etc.

Craig.
 

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id be down for some 11:1 pistons for my N/A project. the engine is going to be apart anyway. im just curious what a set would end up costing.
 

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1oldsaabman said:
It doesn't take much to get a C900 to rev to 8K +. Mine does however due to how the power is delivered there is no reason to rev it past my 7400 rpm redline. The power drops off so much that it's simply not needed. I know it's my cam's that are the culprit & every cam that I tried killed the response under 5K which isn't something I wanted to deal with.

C900's are a LOT of fun, it just gets VERY expensive when you want to get over 300 whp. Not simply due to the stand alone ECU that is needed, the large turbo or the minor engine work. But due to the trans & what it takes to make that strong & also fining a LSD.
Your car already has non-standard pistons though, an essential ingredient of revving to 8k. Surely more people making forged pistons can only be a good thing. Regarding the cam, did any of the other cams make power up to or over 7k rpm? ( even if they did kill the response ).
 

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yfs87 said:
id be down for some 11:1 pistons for my N/A project. the engine is going to be apart anyway. im just curious what a set would end up costing.

yes, some flat top pistons for the NA motors, possibly slightly domed with valves recesses would be really cool. The NA motor has a lot of potential, and with the right equipment can be a great performer.
 

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yfs87 said:
id be down for some 11:1 pistons for my N/A project. the engine is going to be apart anyway. im just curious what a set would end up costing.
X3 I like the throttle response down low of built NA's verses turbo...especially as most of my driving is normally below 3K...
 

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Bit of an old thread but ... :D

... what material did they come up with?
I´m trying to order a set of KE184M905 but we don´t know the material, seems like the seller doesn´t know it either or doesn´t want to tell. Different webshops show different material with the same code. eeuroparts says 4032, another site says Pro Tru Sport Compact Series which should be, I´m guessing 2618? Wiseco has not replied to my email yet.

Edit: Supplier confirmed, 2618. I didn´t even notice this was under C900. I needed them for B236 hybrid.
 
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