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Hey there, I'm from Wiseco Piston (Cleveland, Ohio). I'm putting together a list of engines we may want to produce pistons for in mid 2008. I've done about two days worth of research on the 2.0 and the 2.3 turbo (b234 type) engines and it seems to me one part number could satisfy the needs of the 2.0 and the 2.3. The 2.0's would be a bit low in c.r. (8.1:1)and the 2.3's would be standard 9.2-ish compression (due to the stroke). I could reduce the dish volume a bit and net 8.5 and 9.5 respectively if people weren't worried about raising their compression on the 2.3's.

From my research here, it also seems that a 2.3 (235r) type forged piston is also needed...I hadn't originally thought about it, but if there's a sizeable need...we may be able to fill it.

To make it a catalog stocking part, we REALLY need the block deck heights of the 2.0 and 2.3 blocks along with head gasket thickness. I've read somewhere that deckheights changed at some point as well. When I start calculations based off the o.e. dish volumes I've done in the past...things aren't adding up. I've read that the chamber volumes are about 48cc for the 2.3's..but there may be a change in that for the 94 and up cars. The 2.0's are 46cc from what I've read. The rod lengths seem to be 153mm in the b204's, 159 in the 205's, 147 in the 234's, 153 in the Naturally aspirated b234I, and 153mm in the B235r/e. I'll definitely need to have all that information correct before publishing a new catalog as opposed to calling out a bore and a "iffy" compression ratio like some other companies do. If we need to make the pistons for "Piston guided rods", that's important. We can leave the notch in for the squirter. We can put valvepockets in for the '94 and later heads if needed...they would just be along for the ride on the earlier heads.

We've been pushing our technology into the "sport compact" piston line since 2002. Coated skirts, Nitrided/Napier Steel ring package, and offset pins to reduce noise. We normally use 2618 alloy because it's stronger, but we may go 4032 on the Saabs because a lot of miles are put on them, but it's up to you. We offset the wristpins on our pistons like the o.e. to reduce noise, so either alloy has good manners. The price is very good for the quality and features of these parts.

Please let me know what you think...how far I put these up on the "to do" list depends on your feedback
If you want, you can email me at [email protected] My thanks to folks here for their help in advance...you're doing the saab community a service.

-Brian Nutter-Wiseco Piston
 

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Welcome aboard! Hopefully you will receive some positive feedback. My Saab is my daily driver so I don't take the mods to the extreme. Knowing my past history however one can clearly state that I cannot leave well enough alone and chances are I will build a block with forged pistons at some point.
In the meantime however how about a hook-up on some b20a(5) 81.5mm 9:1's for my old school prelude? The pistons are all I lack for the build. I need another running car before I can tear down the Saab :)
 

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I thinl you'll find at least a few people here that will be interested. I just hope the admins dont shut down the thread since they're pretty strict on advertising.
 

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I'd like the thread to remain open because this is the best way for a manufacturer to get information..from the people who will be buying them!! Not to mention he's done his research on the forums versus just asking away. I mean, if we can get some that are cheaper than the JE and wossner that are currently available.

Are the rods on our cars an issue at all, or are those pretty beefy? I have heard little to nothing about getting forged rods,
 

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I have heard up in the 650bhp range, the rods do become an issue, but I did see that crowler makes rods for the b234 engine.

I just had Je make up a set of forged pistons for my b234 engine.

John
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah, as an enthusiast, forums are tricky. I find it's pretty easy to give people the knowledge of what to look for and let them make their own determinations. Often, I'm able to keep people out of trouble, spot issues with their tuning, and often help with the combination so people don't end up with parts that won't work correctly. In this case, it's me that needs help with measurements and I'm trying to go above and beyond the average effort to make sure we build parts that are what we advertise them to be.
 

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bnutter said:
Yeah, as an enthusiast, forums are tricky. I find it's pretty easy to give people the knowledge of what to look for and let them make their own determinations. Often, I'm able to keep people out of trouble, spot issues with their tuning, and often help with the combination so people don't end up with parts that won't work correctly. In this case, it's me that needs help with measurements and I'm trying to go above and beyond the average effort to make sure we build parts that are what we advertise them to be.
And it is much appreciated.
 

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I have worked with JE to make us some. We keep most of the common failure items in stock in a few sizes. B205 B235 etc.. When was the last time you heard of a B204 loosing a piston really. ;) But I even keep some of those..
 

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I heard of two blowing up with nitrous:p

I lost the b234 #4 piston....... Crack, boom, bam...... Lets see, nitromethane, race gas and 30psi.... What is the cylinder pressure and compression ratio on that puppy? It did last over a year running it hard....

You must know you're limits and if you ain't breakin stuff, you ain't goin fast enough;)

John
 

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John Z Williams said:
I heard of two blowing up with nitrous:p

I lost the b234 #4 piston....... Crack, boom, bam...... Lets see, nitromethane, race gas and 30psi.... What is the cylinder pressure and compression ratio on that puppy? It did last over a year running it hard....

You must know you're limits and if you ain't breakin stuff, you ain't goin fast enough;)

John
Bad tuning or excessive bhp will brake those pistons, but far too often the failures land in the first group. As an exmple this came out a motor which runs with 18T ;) running ONLY 300whp....

 

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Mine was much worse than that, but I was getting as much out my system as possible and it seemed ok on a/f, but I did not measure egt with my nitromethane and race gas and 30psi.

I will keep a closer eye on my engine parameters now that I have that ability. I do know I got another ecu from Jak that runs almost 200F cooler on egt's than another ecu.

I max out at 1550F now no matter how many pulls I do and how hard I run it. First 3rd gear pull only hits mid 1400's, so I think I am doing a lot better on that stuff...

John
 

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John Z Williams said:
Mine was much worse than that, but I was getting as much out my system as possible and it seemed ok on a/f, but I did not measure egt with my nitromethane and race gas and 30psi.

I will keep a closer eye on my engine parameters now that I have that ability. I do know I got another ecu from Jak that runs almost 200F cooler on egt's than another ecu.

I max out at 1550F now no matter how many pulls I do and how hard I run it. First 3rd gear pull only hits mid 1400's, so I think I am doing a lot better on that stuff...

John
the problem though is that if you run the same airmass both advancing the timing and adding fuel will take down the EGT's but the first will lead to knock it you take "bit too far". Relaying on tampered trionic knock control to prevent knock isnt really a gurantee IMHO that the engine does not knock, if it isnt studied seperately. So the engine paremets should be studied as a "whole" and drawing conclusion from certain paramters only is not enough.
 

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Sure, that makes sense and I am only at 20-23psi right now and I only run the 25-28psi racing with race gas 104 and w/m on..... I should have knock under control with the high octane and w/m combined.

I will test this spring with some silicone line to my head and listen for knock. I know Jak tunes for a/f and knock anyway....

John
 

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Vigge said:
Bad tuning or excessive bhp will brake those pistons, but far too often the failures land in the first group. As an exmple this came out a motor which runs with 18T ;) running ONLY 300whp....

Well hell, that pic is a bummer since I run an 18T, but no where near to 300whp.
 

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lms said:
Well hell, that pic is a bummer since I run an 18T, but no where near to 300whp.
did not mean that the t5 piston would be weak for that whp class, more like that with a bad tune even the strogest pistons wont last...
 
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