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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,

A while back I got a Snow Performance Water Meth system from Vtuner Brian, on his recommendation. Since I don't have the expertise myself, nor tools, I am still trying to find a garage that could help me do the install. I am also trying to find a place to put the digital control box (Digital Variable Controler, DVC), as the V6 engine room is extremely packed...

My Snow Stage2 kit is still in its box, while I am "thinking" and trying to entice more information, if available....

Has anyone here anything to add regarding water/meth injection?

More specifically - pictures from their Saab Install, maybe even in a V6?
I have seen pictures from two V6 installs, but they were all "special" - one had put the DVC in the cold air intake, one in the battery compartment, thanks to a much smaller Lithium Iron Battery...

Thanks! :)
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http://www.powerblocktv.com/episode...xplores-the-chemical-intercooler#.U5IGIpSSzSE

http://www.snowperformance.net/stage-2-gm-maf-boost-cooler.html



http://www.snowperformance.net/product_images/magazine_article-pdf-128.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/VermontTuning/posts/729517613779726
 

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there is space. i dont think you need to use their tank instead use the washer fluids tank. and just make the necessary holes or the injection kit. the washer fluid resivour is pretty damn big so yeah thats my 2 cents. not saying im right but im sure it can be done.
 

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you should be able to on the v6, it's a great idea but might need a lot of experimenting and some tuning adjustments to get the most out of it. I'll bet one of those Nitrous solenoids and an rpm activated switch (or even better, a boost activated window switch). But they make nitrous controllers too, they're pretty similar in concept. if you want to be able to adjust the spray, and you can adjust the car's fueling, it would be a lot easier to set up and get it running perfectly, that's probably your best option...just run wires and relocate it to the glovebox or something so it's out of the way
 

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You don't need any special nitrous solenoid or hobbs or window switch as everything is self-contained in the controller. The only time you need those are if you install behind the throttle body.

I agree with tapping the washer reservoir. It's massive.

You will need an 11/32 drill bit and the kit should have come with a 1/8 npt tap. Both of these can be had at an ace hardware.

The easiest location to add the fitting is on the upper intercooler pipe, about 10" before the throttle body. You COULD spray directly in to the manifold, but it would have to be right behind the throttle. You could also tap the turbo compressor housing and spray right after the compressor. If you spray pre-throttle body, be prepared to replace or rebuild the throttle body. Methanol eats the tb shaft o-rings and can weep in to the electronics. To avoid this, the tb o-rings need to be replaced with vitron.

Depending on what kit you have, it might have an internal map, or require tapping in to a wire. Both are easy enough. You can pull from the map sensor on the intercooler pipe, or the maf. The car will require some tuning. Basically just follow their instructions: turn the settings way up (so they only spray on high boost or high maf readings), and gradually adjust until the car starts losing power. You can spray too much too soon and actually hurt spoolup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for comments.

Yes, the idea is to tap into the washer fluid reservoir which is big enough. It will also indicate low fluid level on the SiD. The water/meth pump goes onto the steel frame, inside the left wheelwell lining. Snow Stage 2 reads the MAF sensor, normally starting the injection at approx 3000-3200 rpm, gradually increasing to max rpm. The exact amount (start rpm and rate of increase) is set on the DVC. Thus, the DVC has to be placed where it can be accessed for proper adjustment. This is the issue - it is so cramped in the V6 it is difficult to find a spot to put it.

A few install pics, so far....




 

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Run a smaller battery to free up some room. Not sure you can relocate battery to rear in a SC as you can do in a SS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah, NTP is running a Chimera lithium iron racing battery, however, seems they're out of business and that battery was around a 1k$!!! I can get a lot of goodies and parts for that money.... But, it would make for a clean install, though...
 

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Chimera, unfortunately, isn't trading anymore... though co-owner Thomas (of Real Light Stuff) is still engaged in helping those with problems (I haven't had any...2 years on; $600-ish USD is what I paid + my driving to Milwaukee for fitment).

There are alternatives on the lightweight battery front though (to my mind not particularly expensive). Kanundrum just purchased following: http://shoraipower.com/lfx36l3-bs12-p130

Granted for an FRS not Saab. But surely there are options (and increasingly so as OEMs begin to offer, albeit at the high end).

My thoughts on water/meth: Subtle change; those who were in the car previously [VTuner Stage 2- which is probably the Premier tune in the space and noted for its linearity] have remarked that acceleration is smoother still beyond 3500 RPM. It just keeps going...might even be quieter...Kudos to Brian for Careful tuning (onsite--I drove to Vermont). The car is seriously Fast. And deserves a track day w numbers!

Consuming approx. jug [3.78 L] of Reochem 'TurboPower' (!) windshield washer fluid, blue, -40 C [perfect 50/50 mix; $2.98 CDN @ HomeDepot] per tank and half of fuel. Coincidentally (?) got down to 9.4 L per 100 Km on several hundred mile highway run last week (unprecedented fuel economy forTurbo X!), well in Excess of Legal speeds and Punching accelerator Often :).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Slowly preparing the install. Managed to find the next smaller battery, regular MF lead acid. It will give plenty of room for the controller, but 30% less CCAs... Should be fine here, no freezing temps. Unfortunately, temps here are so high that the fan keeps running a while after shutdown, which means additional drain on the battery...

Issue: have so far not been able to find the right thread tap for the injector nozzle install. Here all tools are metric...

Will keep updating...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
No tap in the kit, but got one during vacation.

Just talked to the SCM for the final details. As mentioned, the latest safe install is to put the water/meth nozzle before the Boost Pressure Sensor, which allows for auto engine ECU adjustments to the cooled air/water/meth mix, and allows for a higher degree of safety for a potential fluid cutout...

I did get a smaller battery, there is even a fitting hole for the bolt holding the bracket. This gives plenty of space for the controller.... However, this means I do need to fix the insufficient, degraded alternator and find the right generator/alternator pulley tool, moving the TX old pulley to the new generator...

I'm very excited as temps here are over 100F most days, and the hot running V6 with the heat soaking intercooler suffers... Hope it will save my engine from the failed exhaust valve issue...

Also a sad day for me, the only remaining SCM in all of ME is going to Bentley and Bugatti... Great for him, less so for us remaining Saab owners... :cry:
 

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Do not install the nozzle before the maf. That is a terrible idea. Do they not realize you have a turbocharged motor? Or have they never used meth injection?

Installing the nozzle before the maf will cause large dropplet formations which wears out compressor wheels extremely fast. While you may be using a reasonablly small nozzle, it's nowhere near small enough for pre-compressor injection. To put this in to perspective, I have a car that will be making 800whp. I have over 1000cc meth injection, of which, only 60 is pre-turbo.

The best location to install is going to be on the tube right before the throttle body, or in the intake manifold right after the throttle body.

A smaller battory does not require a bigger alternator. Where did this idea come from?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi PP,
Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I'm mixing up my sensors :confused: - the correct wording would be "just before the Boost Pressure Sensor" (post above corrected). All as per Vtuner Brian's instruction, and as performed succesfully on NTP's TX.
https://www.facebook.com/VermontTuning/posts/729517613779726

My alternator is going, barely reaching 13V at higher rpms. A new voltage regulator did not fix it, so I'm now trying to find the decoupler tool to swap the old XWD short pulley onto the rebuilt generator (that came with the taller FWD pulley). I need this work just to ensure starting after my relatively short drives, especially with the smaller battery. The last 6 months I've used my car as a virtual PiH, and the voltage would slowly go below 12 volts, even while driving... :(

I also understand that what I am doing with and to my car is obviously not on the same planet in comparison to your 2.8T endeavours. 800hbhp sounds interesting, but is it only for the strip or also dtd driving? I'd be happy with half that in my daily driver... :p
 

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Nice thread. I want water-methanol injection, too.
I drive the vtuner 19t stage 2 setup.

So, where ist the right place for the nozzle? Anybody a picture to show me plaese?
Thanks alot.
Greetings from germany.
 

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any experience

Hello guys. Anyone here did the water / methanol install? I am considering doing it after weeks of researching an intercooler replacement. It seems like water injection is the way to go though.

Any updates from guys in this thread? What's the experience like? How often am going to have to replenish the tank? Is it going to give me range anxiety?
 

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After the TX came out we had a few posters locate their battery into the trunk. This is fairly common when trying to get proper weight and balance; just make sure it vents to the outside.
 

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Not a water/meth set up but I'm considering a nitrous wet kit later this year from Wizards of Nos. I need to do a lot more research first but it's on the cards once I'm at stage 5 ;ol;

Nothing mad, just a 50 or 75hp shot and using their progressive controler instead of an instant hit.
 

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Hello guys. Anyone here did the water / methanol install? I am considering doing it after weeks of researching an intercooler replacement. It seems like water injection is the way to go though.

Any updates from guys in this thread? What's the experience like? How often am going to have to replenish the tank? Is it going to give me range anxiety?

I've had it installed for about 3 years now, Snow Performance stage 2. I mounted the pump on the bumper support bracket adjacent to the AC condenser (I have a shorter FMIC) with the feed coming from the washer reservoir. I initially drilled and tapped the stock tube, but eventually had ParaPat make me one of his air charge delivery pipes in aluminum with the bung welded in and that has worked out pretty well. You don't expressly need to tune for it, the V6 has closed loop fueling even at WOT so it will automatically pull fuel and add timing. Thus it enhances the tune working like a cold air octane booster. The washer tank will definitely outlast the fuel tank depending on your delivery and how often you run WOT. Washer tank takes 2.5 gal totally filled. I would go through a gallon of boost juice every 2-3 weeks when running hard.
 

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I've had it installed for about 3 years now, Snow Performance stage 2. I mounted the pump on the bumper support bracket adjacent to the AC condenser (I have a shorter FMIC) with the feed coming from the washer reservoir. I initially drilled and tapped the stock tube, but eventually had ParaPat make me one of his air charge delivery pipes in aluminum with the bung welded in and that has worked out pretty well. You don't expressly need to tune for it, the V6 has closed loop fueling even at WOT so it will automatically pull fuel and add timing. Thus it enhances the tune working like a cold air octane booster. The washer tank will definitely outlast the fuel tank depending on your delivery and how often you run WOT. Washer tank takes 2.5 gal totally filled. I would go through a gallon of boost juice every 2-3 weeks when running hard.
your car must be a rocket :eek:
 
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