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pade900 said:
Um, yeah:lol::roll:
The only thing retarded are these comparisons that have nothing to do with anything:D
Oh well, nothing new here...
It's completely relevant, you arrogant ***.

changing to oversized valves and more aggressive cams doesn't NEED to be done until >500HP on both DSM and Honda motors, and people do it, and see measurable gains.
(both flow well over 500CFM stock)

Just like you don't HAVE to change MAF's, port the TB, or upgrade the UICP.
you don't HAVE to get a K&N and you don't HAVE to get a 3" exhaust when a 2.5 is Fine. doing so, just helps the motor run more efficiently, and make more power with less loss.

Would you like a clearer explaination?

Don't be so ****ing impressed with your 500HP shop cars. people have been making more HP than you on smaller motors and turbos for YEARS.
you're about 5 years behind in your "innovation", and when you're done jerking off to your dyno plots, you'll realize that.

Let's not EVEN start on the 2.4L Srt-4. I could pop my head into just about ANY srt-4 forum and find people that would embarass you, with less work.

Will I ever have a 500HP car? probably not. Those aren't my goals. I just want to turn the key, and go.
 

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G96nt said:
So yes... "here we go again" you spend all day disproving mods instead of applauding innovation. you're a TRUE credit to the saab way! You, and Frank.
What did I do to be included on your "non-innovation" list?

I'm all for extra power, innovation and new ideas. Hell, I try new crap all the time and post it whether it works or not.
 

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G96nt said:
why modify anything?
one way or another, we could adapt our systems to achieve whatever goals we have.

There's a guy running 9's on a 16G in the DSM world
He did it by gutting his car down to ~1800lbs, runing slicks, and maxing the combination out.

So, The world should never update to bigger turbos, because the 16G is capable to 9's?

There's also a local guy that holds the 14b record @12.something.
He's got a ~600HP setup, and when he rebuilds the motor he puts a crappy Stock turbo back on. for ****s and giggles, he maxes the boost, and tries for the 14b record.

Nobody should EVER upgrade the stock turbo, because it's good for low-12's!!!

How about the stock DSM head. proven to support 500HP.. but people upgrade cams and do 3-angles way ahead of that. why? becuase it makes that power EASIER to attain.

Same with the stock b-series honda heads. proven to handle >400HP.
people change cams all the time. why? to change curve charecteristics. and to make power/torque mor ereadily available.

It's retarded to say that since something CAN support the HP, it shouldn't be changed.
Holy ****!!!! Thank you G96, finally a light at the end of this endless tunnel of people who believe you can only get something out of upgrading a part that posses a "big" problem. I wonder how much HP the stock Vigg I/C can handle? I bet a lot more than the HP most people upgrade theirs at.
And what about porting the intake valves? Is it entirely necessary to do this? NO!!!! but it will improve performance. People have got to stop ridiculing others for things they want to do on THEIR OWN VEHICLE.

Automotive performance didn't get to where it is today by thinking in the mainstream, everyone needs to stop bad mouthing people who try to think outside the box. If you try it and it fails, oh well at least we tried, if it succeeds then we just advanced that much more.

I feel better now. Just to clarify, this was not directed at you G96.
 

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All that is important in this rather heated debate is facts - I have never seen ANY that support the notion that improving the intake, airbox, filter or MAF housing /screens produces any more power - all I'm hearing is misunderstood theory at best and willfull ignorance at worst and a load of irrelevant and inapropriate comparisons. I'm all for inovation but please don't try to convince anyone that porting a MAF housing or TB is something new:roll:.
 

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G96nt said:
It's completely relevant, you arrogant ***.
Nice one : ) Going a bit personal are we?
Well, the puberty ends a bit later for some of us, don't worry you'll get there at some point : )

G96nt said:
changing to oversized valves and more aggressive cams doesn't NEED to be done until >500HP on both DSM and Honda motors, and people do it, and see measurable gains.
(both flow well over 500CFM stock)
Wrong forum. This is a SAAB-forum as some of us already pointed out.
It's no use comparing your jap-cars and their engines and engine managements with Saabs and especially the Trionic 7.

G96nt said:
Just like you don't HAVE to change MAF's, port the TB, or upgrade the UICP.
you don't HAVE to get a K&N and you don't HAVE to get a 3" exhaust when a 2.5 is Fine. doing so, just helps the motor run more efficiently, and make more power with less loss.
Would you like a clearer explaination?
No thanks, these "explanations" don't interest me at all.

I feel you're missing the point here.
Porting the MAF and TB are a bit different from upgrading to a bigger exhaust. If it would make any difference to port or change these parts don't you think someone would have done it already? And I'm talking about Saabs and T7 here, like the original question was about.

And this whole idea of upgrading parts if it doesn't give any proven gains, or infact it is proven that it does infact give you nothing, is crazy IMO.
Why on earth would you want to spend money on something like that? Sure it looks good when you list all your mods in your signature but that's it.

G96nt said:
Don't be so ****ing impressed with your 500HP shop cars.
Hmm, okay. Once again, what has this to do with anything?
I have no 500hp shop car. Maybe if we leave the fairytales to your other forums : )

G96nt said:
people have been making more HP than you on smaller motors and turbos for YEARS.
you're about 5 years behind in your "innovation", and when you're done jerking off to your dyno plots, you'll realize that.
Had to fetch the popcorns already, this is getting so far from anything and everything that I don't know what to say.
Yes, people have been making more HP than mine ~280, there are probably factory cars with smaller engines that accomplish that. So what? : D
Never been to a dyno with my Saab, I'm more interested in how it performs on the street. Of course if you're in need of toilet paper a dyno sheet might work as one:roll:

Again, nothing to do with anything and we are still discussing Saabs here.
And if you're refering to Vigge and his car, I'd say he is far more innovative than many regarding Saabs and probably a couple of years ahead rather than 5 years behind. But I believe you're just stareing at some Honda dyno sheet with 600hp as the base for your argument : P


G96nt said:
Let's not EVEN start on the 2.4L Srt-4. I could pop my head into just about ANY srt-4 forum and find people that would embarass you, with less work.

Will I ever have a 500HP car? probably not. Those aren't my goals. I just want to turn the key, and go.
:lol:
Please pop your head where ever you want but maybe we don't need to know everything here:roll:
Still talking about bored out MAF and TB, but maybe you just ran out of your cards and now want to embarass people on some srt-4 forums :D
Come on.

You could maybe try and see if that MBC of yours could tune down your blood pressure!

Have a good night or nice day, what ever it is over there : )
 

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Shirozina said:
All that is important in this rather heated debate is facts - I have never seen ANY that support the notion that improving the intake, airbox, filter or MAF housing /screens produces any more power - all I'm hearing is misunderstood theory at best and willfull ignorance at worst and a load of irrelevant and inapropriate comparisons. I'm all for inovation but please don't try to convince anyone that porting a MAF housing or TB is something new:roll:.
forget it, I wont stoop
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
well i dont have any goals. im not putting a limit on the hp output of my car because i always wanna have more. the turbo im buying has a 4 inch inlet. if i have a 4 inch inlet and 4 inch piping that reduces down to 2.25 or what ever the maf is that is a problem. the maf will be extremely restrictive. thats why i was asking if theres anyway to improve the maf or replace it with another. the fact of the matter is its to the point where i need to up grade it.
 

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sweed88 said:
well i dont have any goals. im not putting a limit on the hp output of my car because i always wanna have more. the turbo im buying has a 4 inch inlet. if i have a 4 inch inlet and 4 inch piping that reduces down to 2.25 or what ever the maf is that is a problem. the maf will be extremely restrictive. thats why i was asking if theres anyway to improve the maf or replace it with another. the fact of the matter is its to the point where i need to up grade it.

Ahhhhhh, see this makes even more sense. that's a really big restriction, I don't care what anyone who trys to argure that says.

And I like your perspective on power. I think it describes my goals pretty well too. ;)
 

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there are 3.5" MAFs and there are billett aluminum MAFs on Ebay. However, as stated wayyyyyy at the beginning, you have no MAF.
 

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G96nt said:
Good

wrenchspinner
******************************
This is a single 2.4L DSM running 15Psi... I could find more if you wanted.
it wouldn't take long.
out of curiosity what is the garrett model used in this car?
 

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G96nt said:
Just like you don't HAVE to change MAF's, port the TB, or upgrade the UICP.
you don't HAVE to get a K&N and you don't HAVE to get a 3" exhaust when a 2.5 is Fine. doing so, just helps the motor run more efficiently, and make more power with less loss.

Would you like a clearer explaination?
Yes I would like to have a clearer explination and you cant start it by explaining the curves which are present in this test
http://www.stcf.net/filter/Filter_comparison_II.htm
please explain why no differece was found.
No babble of any other parts, just of the parts which where replaced in that test, ie. the orig filter housing and the filter.

G96nt said:
Don't be so ****ing impressed with your 500HP shop cars. people have been making more HP than you on smaller motors and turbos for YEARS.
you're about 5 years behind in your "innovation", and when you're done jerking off to your dyno plots, you'll realize that.
I assume this was pointed to me not to Pade? If this is the case, Im happy to tell you havent stated to be doing any innovative work around it, just the basic stuff. No I dont jerk off to my dyno sheet either, I could care less what they read and you should have been aware of it already. My way for verication the "outcome" lay in the performance of the car. But to guys like you its needed to be posted, because it seems that its the only curve ever means anything...or not even the curve, just the peak figures from it ;)

G96nt said:
Let's not EVEN start on the 2.4L Srt-4. I could pop my head into just about ANY srt-4 forum and find people that would embarass you, with less work.

Will I ever have a 500HP car? probably not. Those aren't my goals. I just want to turn the key, and go.
when the words are out and one has nothing to informative to say the BS begins...
In case you have not noted car tuning seldom is a contest. I do build my car to my personal needs and work towards my goals and Im sure so do the owners of Srt's and DSM's. Guys like you have the tendency to compete with "them", but hey it just as natural as what small boys do with footboll cards round sand boxes. Maybe you should start building you own car, so you could tell us all of the wonderful gains you get out of it with making the strong links stronger and buy leaving the weak ones present. I'm we all could get more out of it than we do by hearing how good motors in other car brands work.

Yes we or at least I am fully aware that even from a saab you can pull the same/bigger bhp/Nm numbers if you just toss a big enough turbo into it, suitable DP/exahust, IC, injectors and fuel pump.
 

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sweed88 said:
well i dont have any goals. im not putting a limit on the hp output of my car because i always wanna have more.
I'm sorry but it's already here were everything goes horribly wrong.
How can you not have any goals with the tune? Ie. you're just going to bolt on parts that you manage to get a hold of, not minding about the outcome at all?
It simply won't work that way:roll:
I mean if you buy this turbo you are talking about, it will most certainly require other parts to be upgraded as well simply in order to make the car run properly and you are bound to "end up" at a certain goal. The next time you want to upgrade some parts, again it will most likely require modifications to other parts. And again, the end result is (or at least should be) the goal you're aiming at.
You can't just bolt on parts here and there without knowing what you want to accomplish with those mods:roll:

sweed88 said:
the turbo im buying has a 4 inch inlet. if i have a 4 inch inlet and 4 inch piping that reduces down to 2.25 or what ever the maf is that is a problem. the maf will be extremely restrictive. thats why i was asking if theres anyway to improve the maf or replace it with another. the fact of the matter is its to the point where i need to up grade it.
Sure.
First, find a air filter with a 4" connection, then make the 4" tubing to the MAF.
Now for the MAF, go to the grocery store and buy a tin can of beans or whatever you prefer. When the can is empty, remove all the nessecary connectors and sensors from the MAF and weld them on the tin can, voilla you have a huge MAF that will support the bhp you will have, allthough without knowing what you even want to have.
Then you can proceed to building the 4" inlet to compressor.
Remember you'll also need to find a intercooler with 4" connections and bulild 4" piping to and from the intercooler, including a 4" delivery pipe. I'm not sure if you will be able to close the hood with this but you can always cut it and get a nice scoop at the same time.
Also, you're now at the point where a 3" exhaust will become hugely restrictive and a 4" exhaust will be needed.

Good luck!
 

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4" will limit your power ambitions in the future - go for 6" as it will give you at least 33% more power potential. Don't be put off by so-called experts who have merely tested and evaluated each component in the gasflow stream - their minds are closed to true inovation like this. Once you have your 7" intake you want to upgrade your MBC or BPC lines - the stock ones are only 4mm and simply will not be able to sustain the power your new intake will deliver - get some mandrel bent alloy 2" tube to connect the compressor outlet to the MBC input and the same from there to the actuator. The next restriction is the throttle plate - have a look at it and you will see it totaly blocks the throttle body at idle and even at partial throttle it creates a huge restriction. Simply get you drill out and make some big holes in it. This will greatly decrease you spoolup time. Now look at your exhaust - most people go for a measly 3" 'straw' of a pipe off the turbo - go down to you local DIY center and get a ceramic U bend from a domestic toilet and mate this up to the turbo outlet - at least 6" in diameter and ceramic. Ceramic coating is a standard heat treatment - you have better though with solid ceramic!. With these simple and truly inovative mods you are looking at around 750hp (at the wheels)
 
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