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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A few months back my car was idling in my driveway and it suddenly turned of and would not start again. After looking under the hood I noticed that the timing belt cover was snapped. I unscrewed the piece of the cover that wasn't broken and noticed the striping from the cover was pulled into my belt.

Now what sort of damage can this cause. When the car turned off there was no sound and it wasn't rough it just turned off.

If I take the cylinder head off will I be able to see if any valves are bent? Or how would I go about doing that?

I have been searching the net and it is hard to find information about the v6. I really need my car back on the road for this summer gotta love the convertible :).

Any information would be helpful thanks guys. Btw its a 1995 900SE v6 convertible
 

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You can check for bent valves with the head off certainly, here it will be quite obvious.

I'd go and just take off the cover, set the timing correctly and see what happens...
 

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This occurrence is one of the bad things with this design.
Probably, the debris caused the belt to skip timing and we may have bent valves.
Maybe a compression test is in order.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Are there any sites with info on re-timing this v6 engine or will I have to go in and just give it a go? I know the general process but I have never done it myself before.
Thanks for your replies. I guess I might just give it a try if I can't get it fixed within a few months I plan on just buying a new opel v6 that they made after the recall and putting that in there so I guess no harm done by trying to do it myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
that would be great. Nicole if you see this can you please private message me with your specific experience? That may help me figure mine out.
 

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i think if you buy a disc of the WIS (Workshop Information) you will be able to access a complete procedure for timing belt replacement, or maybe you can find same by a Google search or similar. It is fairly involved and not entirely intuitive and I don't think I'd try it without the guidance. It isn't impossible to do it without the special tools for locking the cams and the crank, but much easier to do with the tools. The tool kit is quite costly new, but is seen on ebay and craigslist occasionally for between 100 to 200 dollars. I think a procedure came with some of the tool kits. I'd guess that with correct installation of a new belt you should be good to go. The problem you had is not rare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the help I will really look over those posts tomorrow. As for the WIS I am getting one and will be attempting to fix this myself I am very low on cash or I would just buy a new engine (mine already has 150k on it). As for that special tool I probably won't be able to get one any suggestions for doing it without the tool. Also do you think I need to replace the belts itself? From what I can tell it is still in good condition no stretching or anything just out of time. Thanks for all of the help guys this car is like my child its my first but I am a poor college student haha.
 

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Thanks for the help I will really look over those posts tomorrow. As for the WIS I am getting one and will be attempting to fix this myself I am very low on cash or I would just buy a new engine (mine already has 150k on it). As for that special tool I probably won't be able to get one any suggestions for doing it without the tool. Also do you think I need to replace the belts itself? From what I can tell it is still in good condition no stretching or anything just out of time. Thanks for all of the help guys this car is like my child its my first but I am a poor college student haha.
Reset the timing with the existing belt and see if the car runs. If it runs fine, replace the belt and install the updated tensioner.

Personally I am skeptical of the "fallen seal" theory, mine had the same "pushed cover" and I think it was the belt that threw the cover out and the seal went in from gravity, YMMV
 

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Hi amlaero - I already posted my story in your other thread.

I have very little experience working on the V6 engine, but I also own a Porsche 928, which has the longest timing belt in the world (7 ft), and am very active in that community. So, I've heard and read a lot about timing belts, watched a few replacements, and participated in replacing it on my own car, along with rebuilding the tensioner.

Having said that, here is what I learned about timing belts:

- Apart from listening to your spouse/partner, do the same with your engine. If you hear anything unusual, it's a good idea to give it immediate attention. The most expensive mile you'll ever drive is the one after something went wrong and you are trying to reach home or the mechanic's shop.

- NEVER, EVER stretch the factory recommended service interval.

- If you don't reach the factory recommended service interval within 5 years, replace the belt, rebuild the tensioner, and replace bearings as a precaution. It's cheap insurance against a major engine disaster.

- The cost of my last V6 timing belt was about $380, I believe (new owner has all records now).

- Whether it's a Saab or a Porsche - you need to make sure you have the tensioner properly installed or rebuilt. In case of the Saab, there was an upgrade at some point, which you should absolutely have.

- Replacing all bearings that are turned by the belt is another form of cheap insurance. If a bearing goes shortly after a TB job, best case is you have to redo it all, but the worst case is even less attractive.- I was told that the Saab V6 engine, along with some Saturn V6 engines, require a special tool to align cams and crank. I can't verify that this is always true, but I do know that both mechanics who did timing belts on my ex-V6 had this tool

- If the timing belt gives way, valve damage is common, but not always the case. While many older engines are non-interference and won't suffer valve damage, the Saab V6 is an interference engine that can suffer valve damage, if the belt jumps more than a certain number of teeth. I know from experience that 2 teeth don't cause valve damage on the Saab V6, but I don't know how many it would survive.

- The belt itself is rarely the cause of the failure. It's very rare for them to snap. Failures are usually caused by things that touch the belt - rollers or pulleys not turning, things falling into the belt,...

- The way the 928 guys test for valve damage is to put on a new belt, and then manually turn the engine for compression or leak down tests. The results will determine the further course of action.

- If there is no compression, the heads have to come-off. Quite often it is more economical to buy a running engine, drop it in, and sell the parts of the old engine, or sell the old engine as a core. Not sure the latter would work on a Saab V6, but it works well in the 928 community.

If you want more technical info on how 928ers do this, look-up user Hacker-Pschorr here on this forum - he has a few 928s that he likes to mess with, and is very knowledgeable about their engines.

Best of luck - hope you can get your engine back running again!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks all. I just got the WIS now and me and my dad are going to try and put it back in time to see if it turns over. In the case that it does fire up we are going to install an updated tensioner and a new belt. I am going out now to start to take it apart and analyze the task ill keep you updated.
 

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Good luck with your work. The WIS shows what the cam gear loking tools look like, so you might be able to cut a couple blocks of wood to jam in there to keep the cams from moving. Until I looked at the WIS, I didn't realize that there are 3 tensioners on the belt... Ron
 

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A couple of members who have done this job w/o the special tools are Eric of Lockport,NY and Diosnoche. Since you are deterrmined to try, that you will have another pair of hands will be a big help. The hard part is keeping the cams from moving while you are installing the belt. For the pro, the kit pays for itself
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I got it taken apart as much as possible right now and can see that the 3 and 4 cams are still in time, but the timing belt seal is wrapped around and stuck in cams 1 and 2 and they are out of time. I am getting it towed on monday to our garage so I can jack it up and finish taking it apart. (its in my yard right now and is hard to do. I am going to have my dad and my brother (maybe a friend) to help keep the cams from moving. I will hopefully be doing the work next weekend depending on school work. I will post more on what I find than thanks for the advice.
 

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Well, it looks like the timing belt has marks on it that align with the marks on the cams and crankshaft, so it might not be too hard, unless something was bent. Keep us informed... Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well I got the car towed to our new house we are building with a concrete basement so I can jack it up and take the wheel off to get to the crankshaft pulley. I have to go back to school tonight for the week. Hopefully I will be home next weekend to finish the job, I will update than to let you guys know the full problem. Hopefully there will be no problem once I get the engine back in time :).

Thanks again all for the help.
 

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Now a favorite, this thread is excellent and will be helpful in the future.
Nicoles words cannot be truer.
I wonder if Posche has a special tool for the 7 foot timing belt...mount, then slip, seems like a great time and self saver.:cheesy:
 

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Nicoles words cannot be truer.
Thanks!

I wonder if Posche has a special tool for the 7 foot timing belt...mount, then slip, seems like a great time and self saver.:cheesy:
There is a tool that allows you to measure belt tension. The factory type is prohibitively expensive (and I'm not sure it is even still available), so some clever guy (Jay Kemp) designed a simple $25 solution ("The Kemp Tool") hat does the same...

There are marks on the cam and crank gears - as long as you align those properly you are good. Sometimes you have to move the belt by a tooth before tightening things-up, but the guys have not complained about it, yet.

The original tensioner is a bit of a pain - it's oil filled and uses bimetal discs to move the tensioner arm. The oil almost always leaks out, and then the discs can scratch the surfaces of the housing. A clever guy (PorKen) designed an all new tensioner (PorKensioner) that many owners now swear by. I don't have it in my car, yet.

You can also adjust the cam timing. Porken designed a tool for making that easier as well. That's waaay over my head, though!

You can read more about the 928 and its timing belt on the 928 message board on rennlist
 
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