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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys,

One of my favorite online TV shows is this one:
http://www.tflcar.com/

Roman and the crew are a nice guys and I have suggested that they do something on the TurboX for their segment called "Modern Collectibles".

If a TurboX is not a modern collectible, I don't know what is....

http://www.tflcar.com/category/modern-collectibles/

If you are nearby, please contact Roman and the crew on:
Email: [email protected]
Location: Boulder, Colorado USA
http://www.tflcar.com/contact/

Cheers! ;ol;
 

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I'm about 6 hours drive away and go out there a handful of times a year. I know there are a few active members in that area though. Are you suggesting we pester them into doing a segment on the Turbo X? :cheesy:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Pestering?

I'm about 6 hours drive away and go out there a handful of times a year. I know there is are a few active members in that area though. Are you suggesting we pester them into doing a segment on the Turbo X? :cheesy:
:cheesy:

Pestering, pushing, motivating... whatever you want to call it. ;ol;

I think the TurboX story in itself is compelling, and showing that we are a tight Saab community, living and sharing all kinds of Saab related stuff. To get them to do a segment on the TurboX would increase awareness and keep us Saab fans (freaks?) happy and even more motivated to keep our cars in shape and possibly enhance public interest and price levels as well... (I'm not selling (out?) though...).
 

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Pestering, pushing, motivating...
Ah motivate, thats the word I was looking for. ;)

It might take me a couple days to get around to it with university midterms being this week, but consider it done.

;ol;
 

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What about the Turbo X story is compelling? The Fiat Dino story is compelling with the death of Dino. It never competed or won any races or rally.. It's not unique since there was lots of Euro AWD's with more horsepower before Saab got off it's **** finally built one.

As much as I want to believe, it just doesn't seem to have the stuff that will secure it a place as, and oh boy do I hate the terms, something "iconic" or even quirky or ugly enough (like that Datsun they featured), in automotive heraldry. Heck, not even the Triumph Herald made it despite it's name.

:cheesy::cheesy:.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
What about the Turbo X story is compelling? The Fiat Dino story is compelling with the death of Dino. It never competed or won any races or rally.. It's not unique since there was lots of Euro AWD's with more horsepower before Saab got off it's **** finally built one.

As much as I want to believe, it just doesn't seem to have the stuff that will secure it a place as, and oh boy do I hate the terms, something "iconic" or even quirky or ugly enough (like that Datsun they featured), in automotive heraldry. Heck, not even the Triumph Herald made it despite it's name.

:cheesy::cheesy:.
Well, the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"... :roll:

As this is a Saab related site, I'd think most of us find Saabs interesting. There are other cars and other brands that are and/or can become Modern Collectibles as well. The cars considered so far at TFLcar are everything from a Miata, special editions Mustangs, Camaros and even a 1991 Mercury Tracer LTS. I'd say, imho, in comparison, the TurboX story is compelling, from mine and our perspective due to the following:

1. Saab was always a small, offbeat, "quirky" car manufacturer from a small nordic european country with its own design, features and safety.
2. GM, while almost exclusively investing in the Trollhattan production facility, always sent the bean counters down the throat of the design and development team, at least since the 90's and the complete takeover of the car brand (not the defence brand). They always seemed to fight an uphill struggle, being the underdog (that's compelling).
3. After 2008 and GM's decision to kill the brand, numerous buyers lined up, the viable ones only to be dismissed by GM with "IP risk" as motivation (compare Ford's Volvo sale to Geely!), and after Koenigsegg backed off, Spyker was "GM approved" after extremely lengthy and complicated negotiations and took over production, only to run bankrupt 2 years later (GM saw that coming for sure).
4. At the same time there were worldwide gatherings and demonstrations to save the Saab (car) brand and production, unheard of and never seen before (or after).
5. The TurboX is the "pinnacle" of Saabs car technology (from the GM parts bin), while possibly the rare NG 9-5 will be a potential collectible as well....
6. With only 2000 made, almost automatically makes it rare enough to be a collectible.
7. They are not made anymore (unlike ie the Miata).

http://www.netcarshow.com/saab/2008-turbo_x/02.htm

Maybe I see everything through my pink Saab sunglasses, but these are my main reasons. I feel that as a Saab nut I will push FOR the Saab cars and brand, not for other cars or come up with more or less valid reasons why the car NOT is special.

Having said that I am not entirely in fantasy land, and there are many nice, beautiful, ugly, special cars in the world, some of which are or will become collectibles.

IT IS JUST MY OPINION, and I'd hope that some here would share that feeling...??? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
...and agree with the Fiat Dino, that's a compelling story as well...
Did some digging, interesting, but I don't have Fiat, Dino or not...
 

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An iconic car will command a good dollar because it's got collectable points. A few months ago I passed on a 1970 Morris "woody" on a fellows lawn for $5,000, it had a marginal restoration and a local classics merchant grabbed it and he now wants $17,000 for it and knowing him there is a story behind it even if it's not true, I've caught him in a few whoppers. He's been sitting on it now for six months.

Being from Sweden can count and the Volvo 1800 series is a good example since it has visual appeal and is unique. The price has gone up from $3,000 to a whopping $15,000 recently.

Sonett's have moved a bit but the rust issue undercuts them and finding a II versus a III is almost impossible. There is one available now with a Ford engine that I may consider. Problem is that they are slow.

Is the Miata "iconic", I suppose if you weren't aware that the car is a blatant copy of Colin Chapmans's Lotus Elan and you are of ricer age you may think so. I look at it as a cheap copy of a great car right down to the phony Mini-Lite wheels they ripped.

Some cars just have everything going for them like the XKE that was in a succession of cars that "made their bones" on the race track and finally ended up with killer good looks. When Enzo Ferrari says it's one of the most beautiful cars ever built it solidifies it's place in history that was well established even before he said that.

The Fiat Dino, before it was made as a Ferrari was a stunningly clean and beautiful car and before the recent boom, could be had for $5,000 to $8,000 for a respectable "driver". Put the story of the tragic death of his son behind it and they now get prices that are just out of my range. They also rusted but with the Ferrari engine and pedigree they were bound to take off.

There will always be "niche" or "campy" pockets of fans but I think the market will tell us if the car will attain classic status. My guess is that it's a "tweeneer" car. It falls in between too many other cars of it's class. Most people hate the facelift generation and the performance is only marginal. My guess is that an AWD Skoda rally car has a better chance of attaining collectable status, like the Stratos did.

GM killing the car. You have gulped too much of the Lofalk and SU Kool Aid. If Muller wanted to save Saab he could have made cars and been satisfied with a small profit to keep the brand going. I have an insider who was pretty high up the corporate food chain and he assured me that GM made a profit on our XWD when we bought it for $24,000. Muller took over and kept the price, for the identical car at list of close to $40,000 while he failed to sell cars, failed to pay suppliers, took big dollar bonus' not to mention tried to raid the EIB research account and was rebuffed. He could have sold ME another car if he came down to a realistic price.

GM turned down how many viable buyers? Koenigsegg? I was praying they bought it but they realized at the last minute that they were biting off more than they could handle regarding mainstream manufacturing. I know, FBI, the big bad FBI foiled it too right? Do your homework, it was the SAPO (Swedish FBI) who threw up the red flags on Antonov who then turned around and bought it anyway (Interview with Muller in a Dutch paper), by giving Muller the money which in most civilized countries is illegal. You can't buy corporate ownership or real property using straw buyers. I'll let you guess why he suddenly let that story drop. Muller and Lofallk tried to get their paws on the remaining EIB money and when the failed, Muller started to award himself bonus' two times while not paying the bills that brought the company to a standstill with trucks lined up at the gate. Your two "heros", Antonov and Muller; well Muller wisely turned himself in after the arrest warrant was issued for tax evasion along with Christina Geers and Ake Jonsson (who may have been an innocent foil for Muller) and Antonov is awaiting extradition in London where Lithuania an Latvia having outstanding warrants for the theft of millions in bank scams one of which named Saab as a place for Antonov to launder money. Stealing the entire Siberian Rail workers pension fund may indeed put your life in jeopardy. Look up the fate of Porsche modifier executive Uwe Gemballa who played with these folks. Wrapped in Saran Wrap he was found rotting in a South African warehouse with two bullets in his noggin. Regarding the other Chinese suitors, GM is kowtowing to the Chinese on that, not the other way around. The price is GM's ability to sell Buicks there since the Chinese love them. Sadly, please note that GM killed off not only Olds but it's favorite son, Pontiac too and they may fold entirely.

You know, you may be right, there is a story behint the Turbo X and the final moments of Saab. That's quite a story, sad but a story none the less.

Lets revisit this in 10 years. In 1967 Car & Driver predicted that if you bought a Rolls Royce, and prepared it for storage putting up on blocks in your garage, it would out pace anything the stock market would do and make a rich man out of you. Boy were they wrong. Today, you can buy a 1968 Rolls for less than a Turbo X. The market will tell. :cheesy:
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Wow, tunnan, I'm impressed with amount of text you're producing. You seem to know a lot, and I honestly don't know enough to argue, nor have the time.

My point is not that the TurboX is THE modern collectible of all times. I honestly don't really care. For me, IMHO, in my world, my Saab is special, a source of pride and joy, and the occasional head ache. It's not produced anymore, one of less than 2000, thus unique and exclusive.

My favorite online car TV show, TFLcar had this small segment they called "modern collectibles". I wanted to see the TX represented in there, in contrast to the disappointing reviews the TX got in the beginning, "too little too late" et al.

That's it.

I am sorry if you don't like that, or don't think the TX is a potential collectible, but I don't really care...

Still, with over 6000 posts, I believe you have some affection for your Saabs.....???
 

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I think the TX will hold it's special place in years to come. Maybe mostly within the Saab community, but it will probably still be sought after. You can tell Saab really put some special effort into it and took pride in it. The XWD system is still an impressive AWD system (even with it's quirks) and when it was first introduced was really a step ahead of most of the others. They really deserved more respect then they ever got, and if they would have been marketed a little better, Saab may not have ended the way it did.
 

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Affection? There have been some love and hate relationships over the years. I really like the 2.8 now that it has a tune and is frisky and handles well.

I get very bitter when it came to the spin that Muller and his hired help along with the shadow owner, Antonov put on the events with the help of another Saab site that had close connections to them.

Bitter because after following the events, I firmly believe that Saab would be alive today if Muller was sincere. If it were you or I who drove a company into the ground by not paying the suppliers would we be given a bonus?

The resurrection of a brand does not happen overnight. On a number of occasions I tried to buy a post GM Saab under Muller's watch. The dealer was very frustrated that they would not bring down the price a red cent from sticker.

And yes, I was one of the folks at a bring back Saab rally. People can get all warm and runny about the dynamic duo and participating in the retro-rally and all of that but how much of that was just a front to endear them to the average fans? Latvia and Lithuania spelled it out that Saab was being used as a tool to hide much of the stolen money that had been bled from the banks. I also suspect that Muller jumped at the chance to "own" Saab and wonder why he accepted money from Antonov as a straw buyer, despite the laws forbidding this.

Uwe Gemballa? Is it possible that Muller, once involved was afraid to back out? I always found that interview with a Dutch news paper strange, wondering why he would admit to the source of the funds? It seems that he was waving a flag. Or what of Ake Jonsson's taking the job of CFO and resigning a week later? After a long career with Saab he must have seen some things that worried him.

Saab may still be with us sadly. I can look past the ad hype and aviation BS, perhaps it's my nature to root for the underdog?
 

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Affection? There have been some love and hate relationships over the years. I really like the 2.8 now that it has a tune and is frisky and handles well.

I get very bitter when it came to the spin that Muller and his hired help along with the shadow owner, Antonov put on the events with the help of another Saab site that had close connections to them.

Bitter because after following the events, I firmly believe that Saab would be alive today if Muller was sincere. If it were you or I who drove a company into the ground by not paying the suppliers would we be given a bonus?

The resurrection of a brand does not happen overnight. On a number of occasions I tried to buy a post GM Saab under Muller's watch. The dealer was very frustrated that they would not bring down the price a red cent from sticker.

And yes, I was one of the folks at a bring back Saab rally. People can get all warm and runny about the dynamic duo and participating in the retro-rally and all of that but how much of that was just a front to endear them to the average fans? Latvia and Lithuania spelled it out that Saab was being used as a tool to hide much of the stolen money that had been bled from the banks. I also suspect that Muller jumped at the chance to "own" Saab and wonder why he accepted money from Antonov as a straw buyer, despite the laws forbidding this.

Uwe Gemballa? Is it possible that Muller, once involved was afraid to back out? I always found that interview with a Dutch news paper strange, wondering why he would admit to the source of the funds? It seems that he was waving a flag. Or what of Ake Jonsson's taking the job of CFO and resigning a week later? After a long career with Saab he must have seen some things that worried him.

Saab may still be with us sadly. I can look past the ad hype and aviation BS, perhaps it's my nature to root for the underdog?

You are the most negative SAAB fan I have ever seen. But god damn it your arguments are compelling and make too much sense for me to be angry :( haha
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You are the most negative SAAB fan I have ever seen. But god damn it your arguments are compelling and make too much sense for me to be angry :( haha
Yes, not sure if I should laugh or cry, but sure feel tunnan's disappointment, bitterness and anger. While I agree with most of the arguments, I find them off topic....

Because I got this reply from TFLcar, just now... (see next post ;ol;)
...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Anyone with a TX near Boulder, CO?

So, seems we are on.
Andre is "the Russian" on the TFL crew, mostly known for uttering illegible Russian comments in the TFL videos. He sent this reply:

"Hello,
We are based in Boulder, CO. If you can find somebody in our area with a TurboX who is willing to lend it us for a few hours, we will be glad to review it for our channel.
Thanks,
Andre

Andre Smirnov
Managing Editor - TFLcar.com"


If there is anyone with a TX nearby who would be willing to lend them their car for a few hours, I think it could be a great thing for most Saab fans out there (maybe tunnan excluded :eek:).

Contract Andre or the crew directly:

Email: [email protected]
Email: [email protected]
Location: Boulder, Colorado USA
http://www.tflcar.com/contact/

Cheers! :cheesy: :D ;ol;
 

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There is no joy in this and when Saab was on the block I was perhaps the last person to buy a Saab as the strokes of the clock wound down. I was going to buy it orphan or not. I spent the day at the dealership trying cars from about ten in the morning and after driving every example at about four thirty I penned the check for the final papers and started to take possession of our 2.0 XWD. A few moments later the manager came over and put his arm around me and congratulated me "you didn't buy an orphan". Muller had signed just moments before.

One thing I would recommend, sly devil that I am, is to slip them a ringer, a real mickey, the classic Trojan Horse. Pontiac did it in the 1966 shoot out of the legendary Ferrari GTO versus our domestically grown GasTires&Oil buy slipping in a 421 with an alu body, instead of the 389 and again in the Lime Rock challenge with Ferrari versus Pontiac Catalina 2+2 that had a deck lid so big it looked like you could launch Corsairs (not Corvairs) from it's flight deck. Once more, they used the NASCAR 421 but the it wasn't really cheating because you could buy them at the Royal Oak dealership.

Give them a car tuned by John Z. Williams or Brian of Vtuner. :cheesy::cheesy:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
... Give them a car tuned by John Z. Williams or Brian of Vtuner. :cheesy::cheesy:
Exactly! :cheesy:

That's how the car should have been delivered from factory anyways, already their Stage1 / Stage0 breathe some serious life into the TX with no hardware mods required. ;ol;

Now, if anyone wants to help out to prepare the "compelling case for the Saab TurboX as a Modern Collectible", please feel free to add, correct or comment here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1So0WVOssA_XqM7oBg_ffC7dzDakL01_1wiCwpga-vWA/edit?usp=sharing

Please, no negatives required, just the good stuff... ;)
 

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Exactly! :cheesy:

That's how the car should have been delivered from factory anyways, already their Stage1 / Stage0 breathe some serious life into the TX with no hardware mods required. ;ol;

Now, if anyone wants to help out to prepare the "compelling case for the Saab TurboX as a Modern Collectible", please feel free to add, correct or comment here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1So0WVOssA_XqM7oBg_ffC7dzDakL01_1wiCwpga-vWA/edit?usp=sharing

Please, no negatives required, just the good stuff... ;)
Let the market decide. Here in Australia a TX will command a $10k price premium over a similar vintage and equipped Aero.
 
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