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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been reading up on T5 suite tuning and I am ready to flash my ECU.

I will start with Stage I or Stage II.
93 9000griffin auto. 160,000km.

My question is how strong is the auto. Will it handle Stage III or will I kill it.

I am thinking that I keep the boost down to normal figures in 1st gear, just like the Stage I and Stage II maps do.

Comments welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i must admit, i always thought that the reason an auto 9000 aero had 25bhp less than the manual was due to saab's concern's about the amount of power the box could take.
Thank you stew

That is what I thought too, which is why I am asking. I would really like to take it Stage III.

Very little needs done in the hardware area to get it to this stage.

And I also wonder what would happen if it was taken to Stage III with out the exhaust and aircleaner mods.

I do not want a noisy car.

Would the extra boost just be choked off or would it cause damage.
 

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ive also wondered what would happen if i put stage 3 on my car,
but i didnt have the 3" dwnpipe?

i like to think im nearer stage 2, than stage 1, because i have a decat pipe and drilled air box with a drop in JR filter. but i dont want the catback, and extra noise.
 

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Is there a list of the different stages and the parts required somewhere? I would also like to flash my ecu and have read some of the posts about it, but nothing that explained it very well. I know I need a BDM cable or something?




ive also wondered what would happen if i put stage 3 on my car,but i didnt have the 3" dwnpipe?

i like to think im nearer stage 2, than stage 1, because i have a decat pipe and drilled air box with a drop in JR filter. but i dont want the catback, and extra noise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Is there a list of the different stages and the parts required somewhere? I would also like to flash my ecu and have read some of the posts about it, but nothing that explained it very well. I know I need a BDM cable or something?
Yes there is a list of the parts you need on the T5 suite documentation, and

Yes, you need a BDM interface, it is a cable that has a couple of chips on a board it connects to the printer port on an older computer. At the other end is a 10 pin connector that you connect to your ECU after you have soldered the pins on to the board. There is a place on the ECU set up for this, it has 8 solder pads ready to have the pins put on.

You can use a USB BDM interface, but it is more expensive to buy, and I think it is trickier to use but that is only because I have worked out how the use the other one, and it is cheap.

In Win 98 you dump the ECU bin, then in XP I run the T5 suite to tune the bin. Then load it back into Win 98 and flash it back to the ECU - Sound simple!!
However, I suggest you join the ECUProject and read the original material.
Initially it seems a bit daunting, but if you persist, in the end it will all come together. I have just downloaded the bin from my 93 9000griffin.

I bought a spare ECU and I will flash that as soon I have the pins on the board. I am not putting them on myself. I don't trust myself, and my soldering skills for a job like this. The pin pads are quite small.

On the documentation for the T5 suite you will find all the specs for stage 1 to to stage 7 tune.

But for Stage 1 you need no changes to the car except the ECU tune.
Target 235 hp with a Garret T 25. Better than Aero tune, and gentler on the gears low down.

Stage 2 tune 250 hp , needs 3" cat back and maybe a change to the airbox.
Stage 3 tune 3" turbo back and Airbox change.

But I want a quiet car so not sure about the exhaust mods.

Read up Norman Lovie and DanF on here, check out the "for those not on the ECUProject" thread.
 

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I ordered the Bdm cable from Ebay UK that is suppose to be ready to go. I have join the ECU project site and started reading. It looks like some people just use an old ecu harness to connect to the ecu correct? Let me know how yours goes?

Yes there is a list of the parts you need on the T5 suite documentation, and

Yes, you need a BDM interface, it is a cable that has a couple of chips on a board it connects to the printer port on an older computer. At the other end is a 10 pin connector that you connect to your ECU after you have soldered the pins on to the board. There is a place on the ECU set up for this, it has 8 solder pads ready to have the pins put on.

You can use a USB BDM interface, but it is more expensive to buy, and I think it is trickier to use but that is only because I have worked out how the use the other one, and it is cheap.

In Win 98 you dump the ECU bin, then in XP I run the T5 suite to tune the bin. Then load it back into Win 98 and flash it back to the ECU - Sound simple!!
However, I suggest you join the ECUProject and read the original material.
Initially it seems a bit daunting, but if you persist, in the end it will all come together. I have just downloaded the bin from my 93 9000griffin.

I bought a spare ECU and I will flash that as soon I have the pins on the board. I am not putting them on myself. I don't trust myself, and my soldering skills for a job like this. The pin pads are quite small.

On the documentation for the T5 suite you will find all the specs for stage 1 to to stage 7 tune.

But for Stage 1 you need no changes to the car except the ECU tune.
Target 235 hp with a Garret T 25. Better than Aero tune, and gentler on the gears low down.

Stage 2 tune 250 hp , needs 3" cat back and maybe a change to the airbox.
Stage 3 tune 3" turbo back and Airbox change.

But I want a quiet car so not sure about the exhaust mods.

Read up Norman Lovie and DanF on here, check out the "for those not on the ECUProject" thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Great

Last time I tried to get in to the ECUProject I couldn't get past the thread titles

I will go back again, maybe there is an issue with my computer.

I had no problems downloading my bin. It really is very simple once you know how!!

I thought I was going to flash my 'new' ecu today but the guy hasn't put the pins on the board yet. Maybe tommorrow.

With my 97 CD I am going to try the pogo pins, that means no soldering on the ecu.

Hopefully I will have something to report tomorrow. However it is worth reading up what Norman Lovie has to say. He started out thinking he would pay others to do his tuning. Now he is something of an expert. I think he had next to no understanding of computer stuff before he started out on this.

He just read, read, read.

He has a great write up on preparing your car for an ECU upgrade, and a great write up on the APC (BPC) valve. It is a sticky.

I tried to get old connector, couldn't find one so I made a some leads, 5, two very narrow insulated alligator clips for pins 60,65, narrow spade push on connectors for pins 1 and 48 and a wide push on spade connector which I stretched a little to get over both pins 24 and 24. I insulated the push on connectors with shrink wrap.
 

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Power is not related to the auto box. It's torque that's the issue.

And for us - torque is very closely related to the midrange boost figure.

The autobox can easily take 270bhp (= about 1.1bar boost @5500rpm T25 turbo stage3)

But I would not give it any more than 1.2bar midrange, and even less so down low.

The net result is actually a nice flat smooth torque curve. It will miss the 'slog' you can get in the manual but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
 

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I had a large torque spike in my car, and Dilemma helped me alter the boost request map to smooth it out throughout the rev/throttle range. Seemed like a decent improvement over the original Stage 2 Wizard Tune.

Perhaps that's something you can also do to help minimize the initial torque surge, and help prolong the life of the auto-box.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you for those replies.

Educate me please! - I am assuming that means I should be looking at the "Data for Tryck _mat_al"

In the graph it is "Boost table for automatic trransmission".

I think I am missing something here, I thought the T5 suite was only altering the last 2 columns and that would mean it would not affect the car in gears 1 and 2 because you need a WOT to get the boost up.

I suspect I need to be looking at another map, and also making sure the max boost in 1st is no different from what the original bin has got.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I had a large torque spike in my car, and Dilemma helped me alter the boost request map to smooth it out throughout the rev/throttle range. Seemed like a decent improvement over the original Stage 2 Wizard Tune.

Perhaps that's something you can also do to help minimize the initial torque surge, and help prolong the life of the auto-box.
I wonder if that could be a good thing to do.

I am going to study the maps more now.

I just took my car for a drive after having flashed the Stage 2 tune.

I had already tried the Stage 1 tune.

What do I notice, well I am not sure if this is a change (I will have to put my original box back in to check) but at 100kph when I floor it, it drops to 3rd, then a second later drops into 2nd and whoosh off we go. But is that a bit much for 2nd, I am doing around 120 plus before it shifts up, with the accelerator floored.

The boost guage does not go into the red. it stays quite a way back from the red.

This car has had valves done and head skimmed, new timing chains and a recored turbo. Exhaust is standard at 2.5. As is the airfilter/cleaner. No modifications at all.

It seems like it will be hard to keep under 3000rpm. Top rpm is still 5500, and it appears it will do those revs in top gear.
Although I am not sure I ever tried it with the original ECU.

And while I am asking questions, is the 2.0 T5.5 ECU interchangeable with the 2.3 T5.5.

I think I have read they are, but with the ECUProject down (at least I can't get in) I haven't got anything to read.
 

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I wonder if that could be a good thing to do.

I am going to study the maps more now.

I just took my car for a drive after having flashed the Stage 2 tune.

I had already tried the Stage 1 tune.

What do I notice, well I am not sure if this is a change (I will have to put my original box back in to check) but at 100kph when I floor it, it drops to 3rd, then a second later drops into 2nd and whoosh off we go. But is that a bit much for 2nd, I am doing around 120 plus before it shifts up, with the accelerator floored.

The boost guage does not go into the red. it stays quite a way back from the red.

This car has had valves done and head skimmed, new timing chains and a recored turbo. Exhaust is standard at 2.5. As is the airfilter/cleaner. No modifications at all.

It seems like it will be hard to keep under 3000rpm. Top rpm is still 5500, and it appears it will do those revs in top gear.
Although I am not sure I ever tried it with the original ECU.

And while I am asking questions, is the 2.0 T5.5 ECU interchangeable with the 2.3 T5.5.

I think I have read they are, but with the ECUProject down (at least I can't get in) I haven't got anything to read.
Well I am just starting to get into this T5 stuff, but I did alot of work to my SPG. It sounds like you have some other problem keeping you from reaching boost. Do you have a knock sensor light. that was one of the main things with the 900, if there is knock being detected you will not reach full boost.
You also need a real gauge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes and NO

I have the light ready to hook up

But pin 8 has no connector in the main loom. It has an empty space in the 70 pin connector. I am trying to figure how to hook it up.

I am also trying to find my boost vacuum gauge I used to have!!
so I can test the actual boost being reached.

I might take to town and borrow some gear for a test.
 

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I get about 15lbs in second stage I, yeah same issue here about the knock light all wired up just have to hook it up to the ecu,

on the highway i got a flashing cell p0300 random misfires but was just over 6k so fuel cutoff possibly?
 

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Pretty sure Robin on here has a 340bhp auto, Maptun Stage 5 or something...I remember when I had an auto I asked the same question and he said it can handle big power fine as long as you use the gear selector on it to change gear and DON'T use auto kickdown-kick it down a gear before you accelerate using the manual selector.

I guess mapping for a slow boost build would help matters too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Pretty sure Robin on here has a 340bhp auto, Maptun Stage 5 or something...I remember when I had an auto I asked the same question and he said it can handle big power fine as long as you use the gear selector on it to change gear and DON'T use auto kickdown-kick it down a gear before you accelerate using the manual selector.

I guess mapping for a slow boost build would help matters too.
Exactly what I have been thinking.
I think the kick down to 2nd at 100kph is quite brutal.

I would like to be able to stop that happening.

I see in the T5 documentation a reference to max boost in 2nd gear.
But I can't find it in the T5 suite menu.
 

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Posted by YoungSaaber: Pretty sure Robin on here has a 340bhp auto, Maptun Stage 5 or something.
Yes, that's correct. It was Giles Fairweather at Abbott Racing who long ago told me that if the auto tranny was "sympathetically nursed" it could take up to and over 300 HP.

I have Maptun Stage 5+ (That's Stage 5 but with 650 cc injectors, a GT28RS turbo and no torque limit). Although I've never measured it myself, I have read that it is capable of up to 370 HP, all on an automatic Aero with a basic 2.3l 200HP engine. I have had Stage 5+ for 3 or 4 years now, no problems yet.

Of course, I avoid track racing and jack-rabbit starts, and handle gear changes manually to avoid auto kick-downs and change-ups when accelerating. What's left is the thing that Saab is famous for - that unbelievable feeling of thrust when you floor the pedal in 2nd gear at 3200 rpm at the start of a fun run. I usually run out of road and/or nerve before reaching 6000 rpm in 4th.

But, rawill, be warned - the day you remove that centre muffler is the day the car becomes much noisier - apparently the dimensions were carefully designed by Saab so that sound waves from successive cylinder explosions canceled each other out. Right now, my 3" JT exhaust system includes 1 extra muffler and 2 extra resonators and STILL makes a LOT more noise than originally. If I had known that was going to happen, I would have fabricated a 3" version of that original centre muffler and built it into the JT system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
But, rawill, be warned - the day you remove that centre muffler is the day the car becomes much noisier - apparently the dimensions were carefully designed by Saab so that sound waves from successive cylinder explosions canceled each other out. Right now, my 3" JT exhaust system includes 1 extra muffler and 2 extra resonators and STILL makes a LOT more noise than originally. If I had known that was going to happen, I would have fabricated a 3" version of that original centre muffler and built it into the JT system.
I am warned - thank you - I took the car to an exhaust guy and he told me a 3" would definitely be noisier and probably drone compared with the original.

So I may not change the original exhaust.
But for now I have to find why I have no more than base boost, and I suspect it has been like that since I got the car.



Because my earlier car was an NA I guess I never noticed.
But when Stage II didn't seem any better than original I started looking deeper.

First job is to get a test boost gauge hooked up, and a knock led.
I haven't figured how to hook the wire into the blank spot (no 8) on the 70 pin connector so it goes on and off properly with the connector.

I posted this elsewhere too, but, my BPC valve has readings of 1.8 ohms and 4 ohms.
On my 97 9000CD LPT it has readings of 3 ohms on each of the two pins.

Is the BPC valve for a 93 and 97 the same, (93 = T5.2 ECU and 97 T5.5 ECU)
If it is I might swap it over and try it.

I have screwed the wastegate in 2 turns, that made no difference.
Don't want to mess up the base boost so until I get a good gauge hooked up I think I will leave it where it is.
 
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