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Discussion Starter #1
Let me be perfectly clear, the T&C is NOT on the site as of right now, and will not be on the site until i allow it. If you do not agree with something then you can highlight the area, tell me why and PM it to me, DO NOT POST IT IN THIS THREAD. I will have the lawyer look at it and ether fix it or explain it to you. If this thread turns into another long heated argument with members just wanting to disturb the public, it will be shut down and i will put up the T&C with out asking opinion.

So again, if there is an issue, highlight and send a PM then i will address it. Any comments that are not constructive and are meant to just stir the pot will be deleted.

so these are the T&C's from benz world since we don't have one up here as of right now.
http://www.verticalscope.com/aboutus...=benzworld.org

The part most members had an issue with was (old)
You agree to grant to BENZWORLD.ORG a non exclusive, royalty free, worldwide, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, sublicense, create derivative works of, publicly display, publish and perform any materials and other information you submit to any public areas, chat rooms, bulletin boards, newsgroups or forums of BENZWORLD.ORG or which you provide by email or any other means to BENZWORLD.ORG and in any media now known or hereafter developed. Further, you grant to BENZWORLD.ORG the right to use your name and or user name in connection with the submitted materials and other information as well as in connection with all advertising, marketing and promotional material related thereto, together with use on any other VerticalScope Inc. web sites. You agree that you shall have no recourse against VerticalScope Inc. for any alleged or actual infringement or misappropriation of any proprietary right in your communications to BENZWORLD.ORG.

We changed it to say (new)

You agree to grant to SAABCENTRAL.COM a non exclusive, royalty free, worldwide, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, sublicense, create derivative works of, publicly display, publish and perform any materials and other information you submit to any public areas, chat rooms, bulletin boards, newsgroups or forums of SAABCENTRAL.COM or which you provide by email or any other means to SAABCENTRAL.COM and in any media now known or hereafter developed. Further, you grant to SAABCENTRAL.COM the right to use your user name in connection with the submitted materials and other information as well as in connection with all advertising, marketing and promotional material related thereto, together with use on any other VerticalScope Inc. web sites. You agree that you shall have no recourse against VerticalScope Inc. for any alleged or actual infringement or misappropriation of any proprietary right in your communications to SAABCENTRAL.COM.


Please respect this forum and the community be being respectful of the terms i have laid out for this thread. Thanks
And hope we can be constructive here.
 
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I respect this forum, the community and VerticalScope. However, I don't agree with the terms of service so that's why I won't participate on SaabCentral in the future. That's my decision so no harm done.

I still don't understand how you can use my content that was submitted from before the purchase of SaabCentral by your company. I do understand this is a forum with discussions and it is not a good idea to delete any content. I am perfectly fine with that. However, I don't want to give permission to VerticalScope to use my content that was posted under the old ToS, especially for advertising income for your company.

In the last 5 years, I posted under these terms and conditions and not the new VS ToS: http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13382

There is nothing in there about the member's content being used for commercial purposes.

How does that work legally? I hope we can have an honest and open discussion about this.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I will address your concern about the content shortly,

I would like to tell the members that Wolf will not be welcome back on this site.

Our T&C has nothing to do with any concerns he has, Wolf is the owner of another site and is just trying to steer traffic over there. He also used our T&C's on his site, so i guess he has no issues there now does he.

But this is not a game and i am here to help THIS community not help build his.

That being said i do see the concern about your content so I will explain the logistics in why we can user the content.
I would like to point out that I feel as tho we have done right by the forum thus far and that trust has not been broken.

This is a statement by the higher ups who i have asked to step in since im not the greatest at articulation sometimes.

"When we acquired the site, we acquire the domain name and assets that come with that site. That includes the photos and content that we are licensed to use. We do not own your content- the T&C's do not describe us as owning your content. We have a license to use your content. Think of it like this: if you post child porn, that is illegal content - and if the police show up, they go after the writer, not the host or service provider. So, the content you are posting belongs to you, it is yours, but it is licensed to us. This is same that happens when you post to Facebook, or twitter, or any online site. If you post something, you are granting a license to the owner of that site to use that content on the site itself.
The main issue that was brought up before was that the "name" was not something we owned, such as Helena or Fred. Instead, it was asked that we adjust it to be the username of the site, which we've adjusted in our draft for this site.
The goal here is really to make sure that the site content that new and existing users rely on, on SaabCentral, remains on saabcentral for everyone to use and enjoy. We want to make sure that guests that arrive here are able to benefit from the same content they could before. We always adhere to the law, so if for example a court order for a libel case showed up tomorrow, we'd be forced to take something down. But, the goal is here to make sure that your content, that you have licensed to the old owner (and now to us), remains on the site."

Hope this clears it up
 

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Discussion Starter #4
As i have stated before and will state again, If you have a concern please PM me and i will address it.

As i have told everyone, the old T&C and the new T&C has nothing to do with the concerns about your content on this site.

Once anything, ANYTHING is posted on an open site you give a license to that site to use it. So you post something, you do own the words, but you grant that site the right to post it.

I will not explain this again nor will i open the can of worms you have presented.

The issue about content deletion has nothing to do with the T&C. If you feel strongly about this feel free to contact a lawyer and have them explain the internet to you.
 

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I'm new as a member, but I've been a lurker for quite some time. Not just on this site, but some of the big ones (SC, TSL, TSN, and now SW). The main reason I joined was to comment on the sale of the site, but I never ended up doing so.

While I do like this site, and very much appreciate all the hard work people have put into it, I don't particularly care for the people in charge. I have read some--just some, so bear with me if I don't have the whole story--of the "SC sold out!" threads when they were still around, and I understand their (the group of people who have left) viewpoints. They don't exactly line up with mine, but I completely understand it.

That being said, Wulf was a long time member here, and has clearly put in a lot of work into some of his entries into this site. Have I used them? One or two to help with a friends dying 9-5 which inevitably died. Reading his posts in the lounge leads me to believe he was well liked and well respected here. Now he is banned. Was it for guiding people to his site? I guess that was up for the administrator to decide. That puts a little of a sour taste in my mouth, but I never interacted with the guy, and it seems he had stopped using this site before he was even banned. So in the end, no real loss there.

My biggest problem is that this site is led by someone who blatantly lies about a former member, Wulf. His site does not have the same T&C's as here. The most obvious of the lies typed by the admin. And now all the moderators (many of whom seemed to enjoy playing the Lounge games with Wulf) just stand by. It's not my place to stand up for him, but no one else will. Clearly, one would think a friend, or even an acquaintance would stand up for him.

People claim the site is still the same, just ownership has changed. Sure, it may true. But if it is, it means I never noticed all the cowards. What person doesn't stand up for someone else.

Sure I might be taking this too far. But to me, my reputation is everything. I would hope my friends would help me improve it constantly.

Some may claim, "Hey, buddy. It's just the internet! We weren't friends!". Even if you weren't, you shouldn't need to be friends to stand up for someone.

Yes I'll still come to this site for information. But only after I have checked every other site first. Well, I'll start with SW, then TSN, then SaabsUK, and then debate about venturing to TSN (which I've recently learned is also run by the same admin) or SC.
 
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