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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive got a 98 Saab 9000 aero 5 speed, with 130k on it that will not run. The symptom is that it will start, rpms go to 1000 rpms , then promptly dies. If I pull the MAP sensor plug , the car will idle at 1,000 rpms all day long, but will rev to about 3,000 and then die. I replaced the following:
Di cassette, MAP sensor, plugs, fuel pump, fuel press regulator, ECU, fuel filter, apc was inspected, crank position sensor, tested the wiring from the ecu to the fusebox, to the DI, to the crank pos sensor, apc, and fuel pump, most of the hoses to include those to and from the turbo, both oxygen sensors.
I am showing no fault codes except when I pull the MAP plug. If I pull the MAP plug, start the car, and hook the MAP back up with it running, it will idle fine for about 10 min, then die. I have talked to several “experts”, including some that specialize in SAAB’s and they are all perplexed without me brining them the car. The problem is I am 250 miles away from the nearest shop that can work on it. I cant drive it around the block, but it idles just fine with that plug pulled.. I am desperate for some advice I am fairly mechanically inclined, but this has me completely lost. Thanks!
;oops::evil:
 

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Super Moderator EMERITUS
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Funny you should say ignition. A woman at works car would start then stall. Did the same thing everytime. I went over all the usual suspects and everything seemed to check out fine. But, in the end it was the ignition. However, the op say if removes the map plug it will idle fine and then die at 3000 was it? I wonder if there may be a fault with the ecu itself.
 

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one more: air filter mounted backwards, then it will almost completely block the air flow which gives similar symptoms

if all that fails, time for a compression test?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I went ahead and removed the catalytic converter and checked for excessive pressure. I still have the exact same symptoms as before so the cat is good. As I stated before, the ecu is new so it cant be that, and the ignition seems to be working as well.:eek:
 

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How did this start? Did the car run good before, what happened in between?

The symptom is that it will start, rpms go to 1000 rpms , then promptly dies. If I pull the MAP sensor plug , the car will idle at 1,000 rpms all day long, but will rev to about 3,000 and then die.
f I pull the MAP plug, start the car, and hook the MAP back up with it running, it will idle fine for about 10 min, then die.
I would say: either fuel pressure related or some issue with the air flow detected by the ecu.
Did you check the fuel pressure at the fuel rail? I know you replaced pump and filter, but still there could be a blockage somewhere.
If that's ok, could be the MAP sensor is passing wrong values or their is something mechanically wrong with the engine itself disrupting the air flow. You did check the air filter?

When you disconnect the MAP sensor the ECU will run on an emergency program using a standard value for the air flow, which obviously is good enough to make it run more or less. Try measuring the sensor signals:
MAP pinout 1 = ground, 2 = signal, 3= +5v.
Or even better, directly at the ecu connector (rules out wiring): 67 = ground, 22 = map signal, 43=+5v
Signal should be approx 1.9V at engine stop and 0.9V at idle.

If all fails, pull the cam covers and check the timing :roll:


 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It was an intermittant problem that started about a year ago. The first instance was when the fuel guage broke inside the tank, and I ran the car out of gas. This was the first time I ever had the car die on me. I replaced the pump and had this problem ever since, but it was very inconsistant on when it would happen. I found if I left the car for a while, it would usually start in a few hours, so i thought perhaps it was overheating wires that lost contenuity. But one time I drove the car almost 600 miles without stopping, stopped to take a break, and the car would not start. The symptom was the same as before.. it would start, rpms up to 1,500 or so, and then the idle would drop off completly. normally the car will go to 1,500, drop just below 1,000 and then pick back up to 1,000 and run. after this breakdown 600 miles from home, i tried to start the car the next morning.. it refused to do anything but start then die. I had it towed to a swedish car "expert" who kept the car for over a week. He replaced the fuel pressure regulator (for the second time in 3 months), and said the car started and ran fine. I took the car another 300 miles and the transmission went out. I had it replaced, and the tech who test drove the car said it had a hard starting issue.. cranks forever to start, so i got the car, it was a very hard start (cranked forever), but it did go. I drove the car back home (1,000 miles) with no issues, but I did NOT shut it off. I filled it while running and got it home. I shut it off at home and it never started again without pulling the MAP sensor. I replace the fuel injectors, the fuel pump, DI casette, etc, trying to isolate the issue. read my previous post on everything else that was changed. Thanks!:confused:
 

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.....I replaced the pump and had this problem ever since....
So that's where your search should start. Pull the unit from the tank and inspect carefully. Could be a leaking connection internally in the unit drawing in air. Problem gets worse if the tank gets emptier?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I would like to say that it does get worse when the tank level is low.. interesting thought. I have pulled the fuel return line and there seems to be an abundant amount of fuel volume, but im not sure if there is air mixed in..how can you test for that?
 

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Super Moderator EMERITUS
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You might have some debris or part of the old fuel sender blocking the pick up. Could it be as simple as that? It's happened to me. I think it was the kid across the road put something in mine though (Skoda).
 
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