[Tmarter]

So I'm trying to plan out my build for the the spring...So far it consists of forged rods and pistons, ARP studs and headbolts, cometic gasket, but my main focus is to see if I can squeeze a top mounted Gt3076r in there...

I'm trying to see every option for top mounting before I look at a bottom mount, which HAS been done on this engine, BUT...I'd have to v-band my exhaust and most likely re-do the whole thing. If It's top mounted, I can get the Cosworth style turbine housing from ATP Turbo/Garrett that uses the same bolt pattern as my 3" downpipe...which would be awesome.

Couple questions that can make/break the deal:

I will need a custom exhaust manifold with a T3 flange, but how crucial is a tubular manifold with this size turbo, over a log type like our stock one? I've seen some NG guys with the log type, but trying to make a top mount with a tubular manifold will either be a mess of pipes, or impossible to fit with the space I have. I feel like the extra volume of pipe would cause it to spool later, but the air flows easier. Plus these are super expensive to have made.

Log types are shorter and should spool a little quicker, and way cheaper. But "uglier", (which frankly I don't give a SH*T what it looks like, as long as it does it's job), and probably a little more restriction than a tubular one...

My goal is to have it very tame on the street from low rpm up to around 3k or so, but I don't want to have to wait until 4k for when it's just starting to spool. Basically just so there isn't as much of a torque spike down low. I'm also planning to use this in conjunction with e-85 at some points, but not all the time.

Any thoughts or opinions?

 

[pacotaco]

cosmetic gaskets are garbage.


it is a difference between tubular and log, not slight and not significant. honestly tubular are expensive and if you dont support them and they are poorly welded they break, and logs are simple, more room lower egts but less flow. if your going big numbers you would probably do better with a tubular, but fitment is going to be a pita.

as for spooling a gt3076 is not going to spooling that quick, i would think that it might not start spooling till 3k and full boost would be at 4.5-5kish. also imo for that kinda money (if you were buying a new turbo) i would look at precision turbos, billet wheels help make big power, and their turbos are really good quality.

 

[Tmarter]

cosmetic gaskets are garbage.


it is a difference between tubular and log, not slight and not significant. honestly tubular are expensive and if you dont support them and they are poorly welded they break, and logs are simple, more room lower egts but less flow. if your going big numbers you would probably do better with a tubular, but fitment is going to be a pita.

as for spooling a gt3076 is not going to spooling that quick, i would think that it might not start spooling till 3k and full boost would be at 4.5-5kish. also imo for that kinda money (if you were buying a new turbo) i would look at precision turbos, billet wheels help make big power, and their turbos are really good quality.

As far as a PITA, tell me about it...lol I'd like to have a spare engine, and build that up on the side, then drop the whole complete thing in, in one shot... OBX sells a log manifold that is for the Cobalt, but would fit our manifold the same, stainless, mandrel bent, 300 bucks. Only thing would be where to route in the external wastegate. Then there are Collector flanges, and thick stainless gasket molds that you could make a custom with, but that would be a mess of pipes just to make room for the turbo. I Honestly could bottom mount it, but I'd hate to re-do my exhaust. i'd prob have to vband it and re-do the whole thing back...

I was told by several people to go with Cometic, I honestly don't know what else to compare them to brand wise, this will be my first motor build, so I'm still trying to gather up some good facts here and open to suggestions.

And yeah, that power band should be about right for the size. You can almost stick your fist through the damn thing lol but I want to be able to drive it around on the street, with more top end.

I have heard Precisions name come up quite often, I'll look more into those

 

[Tmarter]

http://www.obxracingsports.com/products.php?pk=2047#

 

[pacotaco]

As far as a PITA, tell me about it...lol I'd like to have a spare engine, and build that up on the side, then drop the whole complete thing in, in one shot... OBX sells a log manifold that is for the Cobalt, but would fit our manifold the same, stainless, mandrel bent, 300 bucks. Only thing would be where to route in the external wastegate. Then there are Collector flanges, and thick stainless gasket molds that you could make a custom with, but that would be a mess of pipes just to make room for the turbo. I Honestly could bottom mount it, but I'd hate to re-do my exhaust. i'd prob have to vband it and re-do the whole thing back...

I was told by several people to go with Cometic, I honestly don't know what else to compare them to brand wise, this will be my first motor build, so I'm still trying to gather up some good facts here and open to suggestions.

And yeah, that power band should be about right for the size. You can almost stick your fist through the damn thing lol but I want to be able to drive it around on the street, with more top end.

I have heard Precisions name come up quite often, I'll look more into those

not sure if the cavi 2.2's have the same bolt pattern as the lsj ecotec's. as for wastegate, just get someone to cut out a section and weld on a wastegate flange or use one of those inline adapters that bolts on before the turbo. my suggestion is to look at the zzp mani instead http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/406-Ecotec-Stainless-Turbo-Manifold.aspx its got the wastegate flange on it, and its the same price from a usa manufacture instead of china. honestly avoid obx if your going big power, my brothers obx turbo mani poped a big hole in it, so he picked up a dezod alpha 9 tig welded tubular mani. look around, there are plenty of other companys that make manis, and also browse cobalt ss.net for manis, i picked up a garret cast mani there for 225, and those things are almost identical to oe mani just t25 foot and a little more to the left. **** wana buy mine? just get that and gt3076 with the t25 .64ar housing and you be spooling at 3500rpm.

if you go and look around cosmetic has been notorious for leaking coolant on hondas, cobalts...ect just search it up and you will see its usually half and half all the times. some people get it some dont, but i never see anyone complain about the stock headgasket going, and if your using arp's it shouldn't make much difference since they are going to be holding the gasket down and have much less stretch than stock head bolts.

precisions are great turbos, and you can get the custom to order for around the exact same price as a garrett.

 

[C MINUS]

Out of curiosity what is your end hp/tq goal?

 

[Tmarter]

not sure if the cavi 2.2's have the same bolt pattern as the lsj ecotec's. as for wastegate, just get someone to cut out a section and weld on a wastegate flange or use one of those inline adapters that bolts on before the turbo. my suggestion is to look at the zzp mani instead http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/406-Ecotec-Stainless-Turbo-Manifold.aspx its got the wastegate flange on it, and its the same price from a usa manufacture instead of china. honestly avoid obx if your going big power, my brothers obx turbo mani poped a big hole in it, so he picked up a dezod alpha 9 tig welded tubular mani. look around, there are plenty of other companys that make manis, and also browse cobalt ss.net for manis, i picked up a garret cast mani there for 225, and those things are almost identical to oe mani just t25 foot and a little more to the left. **** wana buy mine? just get that and gt3076 with the t25 .64ar housing and you be spooling at 3500rpm.

if you go and look around cosmetic has been notorious for leaking coolant on hondas, cobalts...ect just search it up and you will see its usually half and half all the times. some people get it some dont, but i never see anyone complain about the stock headgasket going, and if your using arp's it shouldn't make much difference since they are going to be holding the gasket down and have much less stretch than stock head bolts.

precisions are great turbos, and you can get the custom to order for around the exact same price as a garrett.

Cool, I haven't had a lot of time recently to plan things out 100%, but when I'm dead set on the build with my list of parts, I'll hit you up on the manifold. I'll be looking around precision and seeing what they have too...Any opinions or experience with pistons and rods? I'm thinking weiseco and eagle, pretty sure I want stock bore and stroke, but not 100% yet.

Out of curiosity what is your end hp/tq goal?

I'm going to try and go for an even balance of about 400whp/wtq...which isn't going to be cheap, figuring that I'll be adding a LSD and possibly a new treated transmission on top of the build and turbo, to handle the torque and power better...hopefully the later spooling turbo will help for the most part, as I want more top end, but not a whole lot more torque than what I will be at with e-85. That setup should be 327/395 crank.

 

[C MINUS]

;ol;
I will thoroughly enjoy seeing the project and not to be a d$ck but I have to ask. Wouldn't it make more sense and be way cheaper in the long run to start w/ the V6?

Injectors, 19t, a 3+ clutch and a tune and boom you have just surpassed your goal for a lot less money.

 

[pacotaco]

Cool, I haven't had a lot of time recently to plan things out 100%, but when I'm dead set on the build with my list of parts, I'll hit you up on the manifold. I'll be looking around precision and seeing what they have too...Any opinions or experience with pistons and rods? I'm thinking weiseco and eagle, pretty sure I want stock bore and stroke, but not 100% yet.

I'm going to try and go for an even balance of about 400whp/wtq...which isn't going to be cheap, figuring that I'll be adding a LSD and possibly a new treated transmission on top of the build and turbo, to handle the torque and power better...hopefully the later spooling turbo will help for the most part, as I want more top end, but not a whole lot more torque than what I will be at with e-85. That setup should be 327/395 crank.

for pistons you could either do diamond racing, weisco, or je all good brands (diamond would be the cheapest), and as for rods eagle does not make lsj rods, but zzp and k1 (carrillo) sell rods for lsj and they are about 440-500 dollars a set. personally i would go the diamond racing and k1's or weisco. and yes run stock bore, there are no stroker kits i know of out there besides running the 2.4l crank, but thats a nightmare or mixing and matching different rods to pistons. in the end it would probably not be worth it unless you have big power goals. just stick with standard 86mm bore, and stock rod lengths.

;ol;
I will thoroughly enjoy seeing the project and not to be a d$ck but I have to ask. Wouldn't it make more sense and be way cheaper in the long run to start w/ the V6?

Injectors, 19t, a 3+ clutch and a tune and boom you have just surpassed your goal for a lot less money.

heat, weight, and its a ****ing nightmare to work on compared to the 4 banger....

 

[Tmarter]

;ol;
I will thoroughly enjoy seeing the project and not to be a d$ck but I have to ask. Wouldn't it make more sense and be way cheaper in the long run to start w/ the V6?

Injectors, 19t, a 3+ clutch and a tune and boom you have just surpassed your goal for a lot less money.

Well figuring I got this car for 3500 There's no way I'd spend 8 grand on an aero and THEN start to mod it. And more power, but that turbo still spikes like crazy, and The v6 would spool it even faster...I want the torque to come on smoother farther up in the power band. I've seen a couple v6's put gt28's in, they spool slower, but the 19T is actually pushing more air I believe...You could put a big turbo in there too possibly, but building that v6 without a lift and no room under the hood would be a nightmare.

And not that I'm an attention wh*re or anything, but this could be the first gt30r 9-3ss in the US, unless someone did it recently...but I think there's only like 2 that have them in. Here's a pic of one, but it's a bottom mount, tubular mani

 

[wardak33]

And not that I'm an attention wh*re or anything, but this could be the first gt30r 9-3ss in the US

Challenge Accepted :cheesy:

 

[Angel94]

Well I wanna say that I look forward to seeing how this turns out, sounds like this could be one beast of a 9-3. But since you said that you are looking for a smooth power band, I was thinking of whether it would be possible to make a twincharged setup? In addition to the turbo, add on a blower from a cobalt ss and reroute the turbo pipes to go into the blower. Kind of a radical idea, but it would be soooo cool to see a twincharged Saab...

Here's the dimensions of the supercharger:

If they did twincharged setups on Cobalts, why not a Saab? haha

 

[Tmarter]

Well I wanna say that I look forward to seeing how this turns out, sounds like this could be one beast of a 9-3. But since you said that you are looking for a smooth power band, I was thinking of whether it would be possible to make a twincharged setup? In addition to the turbo, add on a blower from a cobalt ss and reroute the turbo pipes to go into the blower. Kind of a radical idea, but it would be soooo cool to see a twincharged Saab...

Here's the dimensions of the supercharger:

If they did twincharged setups on Cobalts, why not a Saab? haha

OHHHH trust me. I looked that up a ton. If I could, I would. But there isn't anyway to control the supercharger with our ECU, unless you ran stand alone or something. You could take our turbo motor, build it, stick it in a cobalt, and put their blower on it. It's been done, and theyre perfect setups to spool a huge turbo. But it would look better on these ;ol;

Honestly I almost bought an '88 MR-2 a month ago for 500 bucks lol, those are the baddest cars when twincharged. Theyre teeny, plus theyre almost 50/50 on the track, and light as hell.

 

[ERP]

OHHHH trust me. I looked that up a ton. If I could, I would. But there isn't anyway to control the supercharger with our ECU, unless you ran stand alone or something.

I have the same M62 supercharger on my Elise. It is not controlled by the ECU. It uses a simple butterfly valve controlled by manifold vacuum pressure. There is a 680 whp Exige which is twin charged. It's a bit crazy having that much power from a 1.8L engine in a 2,150 lb car. Below is a good clip about it.

 

[Angel94]

I have the same M62 supercharger on my Elise. It is not controlled by the ECU. It uses a simple butterfly valve controlled by manifold vacuum pressure.

This is good...I'd love to see somebody try this out. I'm assuming that the supercharger that's on the Cobalts would be a somewhat direct bolt up to our intake manifolds. The only problem I can see is that our ECU is right next to the manifold. It might be difficult if the ECU has to be relocated. I can see why it's in a different place on the Cobalts now...

 

[Tmarter]

This is good...I'd love to see somebody try this out. I'm assuming that the supercharger that's on the Cobalts would be a somewhat direct bolt up to our intake manifolds. The only problem I can see is that our ECU is right next to the manifold. It might be difficult if the ECU has to be relocated. I can see why it's in a different place on the Cobalts now...

The intake manifold would need to come off a cobalt, and the throttle body and ecu would need to be moved.



There might be a way to get it to work, I think ZZP has done it, but Jn2 had a cobalt and is on his second saab, he should be the guy to chime in here.

http://www.gmsportcompact.net/forums/showthread.php/4477-Parts-Required-to-SC-2.2

^that's on a 2.2 n/a, but the lsj, 2.2 and b207 (lk9) are essentially the same engine. There would be a lot more than just bolting it up, but getting the Trionic 8 to work the turbo, but somehow allowing the supercharger to work parallel to the turbo and not interfere with the MAP so the ECU doesn't go nuts...I'll need to do a lot more homework on all of that but you COULD make it work with the right parts...I'll email John about it and see what he says.

 

[Tmarter]

His first words. "No way Jose". LMFAO

Figuring Hahn and ZZP both tried the compound setups, they both ended up dumping them for single turbo setups. That pretty much explains it. Biggest issue is tuning. I'll probably stick with a big turbo, still looking around, leaning towards the gt30r

 

[pacotaco]

His first words. "No way Jose". LMFAO

Figuring Hahn and ZZP both tried the compound setups, they both ended up dumping them for single turbo setups. That pretty much explains it. Biggest issue is tuning. I'll probably stick with a big turbo, still looking around, leaning towards the gt30r

go gt3076, but run a my mani XD and grab the t25 footed turbin housing with the 44mm ewg vband on it, then just rotate it towards the dp and weld it in.

 

[Tmarter]

go gt3076, but run a my mani XD and grab the t25 footed turbin housing with the 44mm ewg vband on it, then just rotate it towards the dp and weld it in.

One question, I know that a new gt3076r (gt30r) is ball bearing, which means it's basically not rebuildable without a new CHRA, which is like almost half the cost of the whole turbo even with a core buy back...Is it reliable enough not to worry about it compared to a billet precision journal bearing?

Also PM me a pic of the manifold.

 

[20Tsaabsteve]

Interested in seeing this build.