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Hey guys,
Ok maybe its the paranoid little voice inside of me, but all this talking of sludging engines from other members has got me freaked. I just wanted to clarify does this only happen to turbo engines?
Mine is 2.3 Natural w/ 96000 kms, oil changed every 7500 w/ synthetic as far as i can see from new.

Your responses would be appreciated, hopefully before i chew my nails all the way down.
 

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The best way to find out is to take off the valve cover and have a look. Remove the DIC and PCV hose and then loosen the large torx bolts on the cover. You'll have to also undo the nuts that hold down the oil pipe support (holds the dipstick) to get to one of the bolts. After all the bolts are out is should come free by hand. If it doesn't, bang on it with a rubber mallot.

Some deposits are ok, but it should be free of heavy caked black particles and black "goo".
 

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97NG, I believe your nails and the engine will last a long,long time.

Excessive heat and cold, as well as overly long drain intervals are contributing factors...
The Toyota engineers, as well as Saab, and VW, should have something concrete on this problem by now, but this is top-secret stuff.
Maybe Saab and VW use a too fine oil pump screen...
 

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Other people here will probably provide more detail, but I think you're OK. The sludging is more of a problem with newer turbo's (something about different pcv systems and oil pumps). You're probably in good shape.
 

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I too have a 2.3 n/a engine 900. Its BHP per litre comes out at 65.22 which is quite understressed. The 9-5's have had problems with oil starvation. I was informed by a local dealer that the block of the gm900 stems from the old Triumph engine that was sucessfully used in the C900! A good idea is to change the oil and filter every 6000 miles (10,000Kms) and use a oil flush as well. A damn sight cheaper than a new engine.
 

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handsome said:
I too have a 2.3 n/a engine 900. Its BHP per litre comes out at 65.22 which is quite understressed. The 9-5's have had problems with oil starvation. I was informed by a local dealer that the block of the gm900 stems from the old Triumph engine that was sucessfully used in the C900! A good idea is to change the oil and filter every 6000 miles (10,000Kms) and use a oil flush as well. A damn sight cheaper than a new engine.
wtf, the ng900 block is the same as the 9-5, i dont know what the dealer is taking but i bet its not legal :lol: the engine is nothing like the old triumph lump :roll:
 

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I dunno, one of the things I found reassuring about my move to the ng900 from a c900 was that the engine looked a lot like the one in my c900. Sure, it has the balancers added, but it does really look a lot like the long-lived triumph engine. Also, I always thought the weird slant in the valve cover was a holdover from the c900.

I'm not sure what "derived from" means, but superficailly it looks a lot alike.

I'd defer to boxman's greater experience, but there's definitely at least a family resemblance.
 

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the c900 H engine resembles the triumph engine in the fact that it has a crank shaft with 4 cylinders and an over head cam shaft with a 45 deg' slant, thats it, its the old B engine that was derived from the truimph lump
 

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boxman said:
wtf, the ng900 block is the same as the 9-5, i dont know what the dealer is taking but i bet its not legal :lol: the engine is nothing like the old triumph lump :roll:
you're a cheeky effer!!!:nono; so how come ng900 don't sludge up but 9-5's do?

Stems means there is a lineage but not direct. As a 'super moderator' would have thought your language would be a little less confrontational, but i guess thats the way things work on this rather seedy site!!

Now I know why the peolpe at [email protected] don't like the mention of saabcentral. only trying to help
 

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Relax Handsome. I see NOTHING confonrtational in that post. That's why people use smileys', so you know they aren't trying to be rude. :lol:
He wondered what the dealer was smoking...not you...
You just took it that way...almost like you are just waiting for someone to slight you over here.
 

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handsome said:
you're a cheeky effer!!!:nono; so how come ng900 don't sludge up but 9-5's do?



Now I know why the peolpe at [email protected] don't like the mention of saabcentral. only trying to help
actually, 900's [4 cyl] sludge up too.



Ohh, by the way, it's not so much a question of not wanting to mention, more a case of not being allowed to mention; sadly I thought it was all water under the bridge and all that but alas... :roll:

Funny really but the tone of you're reply would possibly be deleted and you'd risk a ban on the aformentioned Saab alternative site but here, we enjoy an alternative point of view, even if the tone of the reply may displease.

Stick around and and get a feel for the place, you may actually like it ;)
 

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Gentlemen ! Gentlemen !
Put away your knives and guns !

Having owned many Saabs, I can see some relationship between the '69 Triumph engined Saab and the '73, and the '79, and the '96 looks to be totally different from either.
The last one was the '84 900S - B engine ?..
I guess the H engine had 4 valves per and an external water pump..
I have even heard that Renault supplied the later '70s,(80s?) blocks - this I do not believe.
And I do not know how these rumors get started...
Dealers should know their product better !
 

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earthworm said:
I have even heard that Renault supplied the later '70s,(80s?) blocks - this I do not believe.
For some Volvos this was the case, but engine supply is often not what you expect; Ford has about 25% of its engines built in the UK and supplies them far and wide, not just to Peugeot/Citroen but also Toyota ;)
earthworm said:
Dealers should know their product better !
damn right
 

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i was only passing on info i had received in good faith. dont take kindly to wtf!!!!!!!!:nono;



wld prefer to be corrected pleasantly rather than sarcastically:D

e.g. 'handsome the dealer was talking pants. H engines derived from old triumphs. b engines ......'
 

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handsome said:
i was only passing on info i had received in good faith. dont take kindly to wtf!!!!!!!!:nono;'

hi handsome, please except my apolages, it was not ment in any way to be disrespectful to you, i was just a little supprised that the dealer was telling people this when it is inaccurate, may be i was a bit tactless and for that i apolagise hole heartedly
 

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boxman said:
hi handsome, please except my apolages, it was not ment in any way to be disrespectful to you, i was just a little supprised that the dealer was telling people this when it is inaccurate, may be i was a bit tactless and for that i apolagise hole heartedly

Accepted:D
 

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Ok, a rough and ready history of the Saab straight 4 engine!

1) Ricardo designs engine for triumph, to be workable into a V8 at some point - hence the main reason for the slant, the other reason being to keep the height of the engine down). Saab buy into the project and share development costs. These original engines were built by triumph then sent to Saab. They have a jackshaft which drives the dissy, oil pump and waterpump. 1709cc engines.

2) Upped to 1850cc it gets a bit fuzzy for me here - I *think* they were still built by Triumph, although a lot fo the update work was done by Saab. Still same basic engine though.

3) "B engine". Upped to 2 litres, re-designed by Saab, and now built by Saab. Altered water pump, headmounting method (the triumph engines suffered from headgasket problems). Duplex timing chain. Various other mods. Still strongly resembles the original layout though.

4) "H engine". Jackshaft deleted. Waterpump now driven by V belt, dissy driven from end of cam and oil pump driven by the crank. Back to a simplex timing chain. Apart from the overall look, almost all parts designed by Saab now.

5) H engine 16v. Twin cam head, the short block remaining the same. Detail differences in pistons though.

Then you get the develoment of DI etc. which is all too modern for me :D

The 900 first had the B engine, so never had a triumph lump. It soon went over to the H though which is a much better design (the jackshaft is a heavy and brittle thing. I love it though as it's "quirky"!). The triumph engine is the pre-historic ancestor of the GM900/9-5 engine.
 

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Cool, thanks Nutcase. So my 89 c900 and my 94 ng900 seem to have the H 16v engine, although I think the 89 had a 2.0l engine while the ng has a 2.3, and of course the ng has a balancer shaft added.

And now back to our original thread - is it true that the earlier n.a. engines don't have the sludge problem so much? Both cars were pretty clean under the valve covers, having only some varnish, no gunky sludge. The '89 had about 200K on it.
 
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