Sludge Removal Without Dropping Pan

1474 Views 17 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Joe Saab, Mar 14, 2022

vkonradi

Discussion Starter · Dec 31, 2020

2000 9-3 SE. Had oil return plugged by sludge in 2008, oil light, warning chime. Mechanic dropped the pan, cleaned out the sludge. I've been running full synthetic since then.

Today at 160k+ a noise sounds definitely like a collapsed lifter, toward the cam chain end of the head. Either a bad lifter or insufficient oil pressure, or perhaps a combination, as happens in old engines. Haven't attached an oil pressure gauge to test, but planning to do that. Suspecting oil sludge plugging the screen again. I wouldn't mind keeping this fine machine running for another few years.

I prefer not to drop the pan. Breaking 20 yr old bolts loose from the exhaust, pan, crossmember, something else can break. It isn't worth taking to a mechanic, and anyway I haven't been to a mechanic in 10 years or so. Paul Dolmetsch, the Saab-whisperer last in Austin passed away several years ago, rest his soul...

I read on a VW forum a technique of cutting a hole right under the screen, cleaning the screen, then patching the pan with a screwed-on plate. Photos were no longer available, but I got the idea. That's my kind of fix, and I've got the tools to fabricate. Is there perhaps a thread on doing similar for a Saab?

I also read another VW posting about seriously jacking and tilting the car so anything will fall toward the drain plug, making a long handled wire brush with a couple bristles and carefully tickling the crud off the screen, meanwhile pouring flush into the oil fill port above to flush it through to the oil drain plug hole. Is there a thread on doing similar for a Saab?

What kind of idiot designed an oil pickup sump lower than the oil drain plug??? Must have been a GM corporate decision. Thanks for your help!

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

jvanabra

· #2 · Dec 31, 2020

I'm not sure what "What kind of idiot designed an oil pickup sump lower than the oil drain plug???" means, or what it refers to. The B2x5 pickup is totally conventional, there is nothing strange or unusual about it. The drain is the lowest point in the pan as it is on every motor I've ever seen.

As for drilling a hole, I imagine it could work but putting it back together in a functional way would be difficult. The pickup is attached to the pan like many modern motors, it doesn't dangle from the bottom end like older engines. (This was a change that happened around the '90s to facilitate assembly and allow for other features like oil coolers... my Volvo and Jeep are both assembled this way)

Reactions: 1

Swedeguy

· #3 · Dec 31, 2020

Don’t butcher a decent car just do the repair the correct way. Pan drop takes an hour and is easy.

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Reactions: 1

AUSSIE900

· #4 · Dec 31, 2020

Agreed , removing the pan isnt a huge deal , With pan removed you could then ( if you must ) consider your trap door arrangement , I wouldnt give it a thought In situ . I am inclined to think , that if the issue has reoccured , then the PCV updates were not completed at the time the pan was last dropped. This is more relevant than easy access to the screen , prevention before cure .
Drop the pan , clean the pick up and pan well , fit the PCV 6 upgrade kit , continue with a good servicing regime and forget the hack , it wont be required. An oil pressure gauge would be a better investment in time and effort than your inspection plate .

multisaabguy

· #5 · Dec 31, 2020

I have to say as far as Saabs go it's one of the easiest cars to break bolts loose from on a 20 year old car, pan bolts will have no issues, the exhaust ,just spray with pb blaster first, and if it were done on 08 then it's only been 12 years, even better.

BobSaabit

· #6 · Dec 31, 2020

There actually was an oil pan being (re)made back in the day that had a removable cover under the screen area. They milled a groove in the bottom of the pan and installed an O-ring. The bolt on plate sealed up against it. The company that was making them stopped at least five years ago.

saabbug

· #7 · Dec 31, 2020

vkonradi said:
2000 9-3 SE. Had oil return plugged by sludge in 2008, oil light, warning chime. Mechanic dropped the pan, cleaned out the sludge. I've been running full synthetic since then.

Today at 160k+ a noise sounds definitely like a collapsed lifter, toward the cam chain end of the head. Either a bad lifter or insufficient oil pressure, or perhaps a combination, as happens in old engines. Haven't attached an oil pressure gauge to test, but planning to do that. Suspecting oil sludge plugging the screen again. I wouldn't mind keeping this fine machine running for another few years.

I prefer not to drop the pan. Breaking 20 yr old bolts loose from the exhaust, pan, crossmember, something else can break. It isn't worth taking to a mechanic, and anyway I haven't been to a mechanic in 10 years or so. Paul Dolmetsch, the Saab-whisperer last in Austin passed away several years ago, rest his soul...

I read on a VW forum a technique of cutting a hole right under the screen, cleaning the screen, then patching the pan with a screwed-on plate. Photos were no longer available, but I got the idea. That's my kind of fix, and I've got the tools to fabricate. Is there perhaps a thread on doing similar for a Saab?

I also read another VW posting about seriously jacking and tilting the car so anything will fall toward the drain plug, making a long handled wire brush with a couple bristles and carefully tickling the crud off the screen, meanwhile pouring flush into the oil fill port above to flush it through to the oil drain plug hole. Is there a thread on doing similar for a Saab?

What kind of idiot designed an oil pickup sump lower than the oil drain plug??? Must have been a GM corporate decision. Thanks for your help!

Use a stethoscope to try and find out exactly where the noise is coming from. Mine was making the same noise years ago and I also assumed the sludge issue had gotten me. Come to find out my ac clutch was failing and the noise was very similar, quick check is to run the engine with the belt off. And yes it is pretty painless to remove the pan if you have some mechanical knowledge. My pickup was spotless at 110k.

vkonradi

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 28, 2022

Following up for completeness, as I resolved this last year. I listened carefully to the valve cover with a screwdriver stuffed in my ear, decided it was definitely not valve tick. Listened carefully around the engine. Short story...

This noise was caused by an unusual loosening of the main crankshaft pulley bolts. The pulley was literally flopping around. What happens after 160k miles to loosen bolts that have been tight heretofore? Pulled off the pulley. Because there was oil leakage , took off the oil pump cover, replaced both o-ring and shaft seal while I was in there, reinstalled pulley with loctite on the bolts, and it has been fine since.

Reactions: 2

jvanabra

· #9 · Feb 28, 2022

Somebody not installing it properly is the answer...

Jeremy R.

· #10 · Mar 2, 2022

This isn't the first time I've heard of the crankshaft pulley bolts coming loose, but at least it didn't cause any damage. The timing cover could have gotten pretty munched up if that was left for too long, just like a wobbling water pump pulley can wear a groove in it.

AUSSIE900

· #11 · Mar 2, 2022

I am confused why the Plural of crankshaft pulley bolt is used consistently in this thread , what have I missed ? There is but one bolt attaching the pulley to the crank

Reactions: 1

Mort

· #12 · Mar 2, 2022 (Edited)

Interesting point Aussie. Could just be a minor typo in this case - it happens.
I thought to obtain bonus points in a Saab, you parked away from other cars to avoid possible damage when in a car park, not the precise use of grammar.

But hey it's a totally crazy world at the moment.

I know it is not the correct crankshaft - but it might help.

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Jeremy R.

· #13 · Mar 2, 2022

The crankshaft pulley is made out of two parts that are bolted together with about a half dozen small Torx bolts. Those are what loosened, not the single huge bolt that attaches the thing to the crankshaft. At least that's my assumption, based on what the OP said. Those bolts loosening has been reported a couple other times on this board.

Reactions: 2

AUSSIE900

· #14 · Mar 2, 2022

Jeremy R. said:
The crankshaft pulley is made out of two parts that are bolted together with about a half dozen small Torx bolts. Those are what loosened, not the single huge bolt that attaches the thing to the crankshaft. At least that's my assumption, based on what the OP said. Those bolts loosening has been reported a couple other times on this board.

Ahhh ok , thank you Jeremy , that explains it for me , I had an image of a c900 harmonic balancer locked in my mind ( bonded rubber joining inner and outer ) . Next time I am looking at an og 93 pulley i will take a closer look , Cheers , appreciate the explanation.

Reactions: 1

Mort

· #15 · Mar 3, 2022

Apologies about my 'Grammar' remark also.
It was intended as light humour jest only.

Mimmi

· #16 · Mar 3, 2022

Mort: Does that straighten bent crankshaft also?
If yes, can you send me 1 packet?

Mort

· #17 · Mar 3, 2022

Mimmi said:
Mort: Does that straighten bent crankshaft also?

Drink too many Mimmi and you can end up bent and very out of shape.
It's a great local brewery.
They have some mechanical sounding beer names like 'red nut', crankshaft, sprocket, hub, big nut.
They also have a nice ale called 'Mort's gold'.. and they are located on Mort Street.

www.bentspokebrewing.com.au

BentSpoke Brewing Co

BentSpoke Brewing Co

www.bentspokebrewing.com.au

** I'm not associated with them in any way - except as a customer (sometimes).

Joe Saab

· #18 · Mar 14, 2022

Mort said:
Drink too many Mimmi and you can end up bent and very out of shape.
It's a great local brewery.
They have some mechanical sounding beer names like 'red nut', crankshaft, sprocket, hub, big nut.
They also have a nice ale called 'Mort's gold'.. and they are located on Mort Street.

BentSpoke Brewing Co

BentSpoke Brewing Co

www.bentspokebrewing.com.au

** I'm not associated with them in any way - except as a customer (sometimes).

Reminds of a great brewery in upstate NY. Lots of tool beer names.

www.industrialartsbrewing.com

Industrial Arts Brewing Company

We are Industrial Arts Brewing Company in Hudson Valley New York and we focus on safety, quality, consistency and sustainability every step of the way; beginning at the farms, through our brewhouses and cellars, and finally on to you and your friends and family.

www.industrialartsbrewing.com

Reactions: 1

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