[nathanthepilot]

Hi, I have a 99 LPT wagon that has the 2.3 engine (170hp). I want to put a 2000 aero engine in it with a 2002 ECU so that I'll end up with 250hp:cheesy:. Will this be a straight forward swap, or is there more to it that I don't see? Would I be better off putting the Mitu td04 turbo on my LPT engine and putting in an Aero ECU at the same time? At this point the old engine is out and I just want to keep things simple with putting in a ready-to-go engine. Thanks for any replies. I hope to order the Aero engine today if this works like I think it will.

 

[stipud]

TD04 + ECU of a similar year to your car is all you need. Not sure the later model ECUs are backwards compatible... Dr. Boost is the only one I know who does this, but he is also an engineer at Saab so may have a few tweaks of his own. Either way the 230HP and 250HP Aeros are equally fast: the only major change was a more accurate horsepower rating. No point in swapping engines unless yours is blown, in which case you are probably better off putting in a cheaper and more reliable Saab 9000 B234 block.

 

[nathanthepilot]

TD04 + ECU of a similar year to your car is all you need. Not sure the later model ECUs are backwards compatible... Dr. Boost is the only one I know who does this, but he is also an engineer at Saab so may have a few tweaks of his own. Either way the 230HP and 250HP Aeros are equally fast: the only major change was a more accurate horsepower rating. No point in swapping engines unless yours is blown, in which case you are probably better off putting in a cheaper and more reliable Saab 9000 B234 block.

Hi Stipud,

Thanks for the quick reply. Well at this point, I might have a cracked head/piston/block. I thought it might be the head gasket, but it's intact. I don't really want to mess with the old motor anymore The PO went through putting in a new turbo/HG/timing chain, etc. and it's doing the same thing again. I'd like to start fresh and this seems the best way to me. I can get a 2001 engine and ECU from the same car for $1400 shipped, so it seems this is the easiest/quickest method to getting me back on the road, and also will give me a performance gain at the same time. I'm not looking for 350hp, just a 'nice' gain over the 170 and a little more reliability with the TD04 turbo. It will be "the little red wagon that could."

Nathan

 

[greenmatt]

That sounds reasonable just make sure you check the new engine thoroughly and do any maintenance while it is out of the car. Check things like the main seal and timing chain and obviously the sump as these are harder to fix when the engine is back in. I wouldnt be 100% sure of the loom being the same in terms of a few sensors and traction control. I know the ecu used a different can protocol for traction control in the aeros. Your car will also probably only have one oxygen sensor in the loom while aeros have two. This can be fixed with some code from ecu project but in that case you are probably better off just having your original ecu reflashed.

 

[nathanthepilot]

That sounds reasonable just make sure you check the new engine thoroughly and do any maintenance while it is out of the car. Check things like the main seal and timing chain and obviously the sump as these are harder to fix when the engine is back in. I wouldnt be 100% sure of the loom being the same in terms of a few sensors and traction control. I know the ecu used a different can protocol for traction control in the aeros. Your car will also probably only have one oxygen sensor in the loom while aeros have two. This can be fixed with some code from ecu project but in that case you are probably better off just having your original ecu reflashed.

Sounds fair enough. I checked out ecuproject.com and it's very confusing. I don't even know where to start on that website. I guess if the stealership can flash my current ECU, that'd be the easiest. I called them for their Saab service guy and he's not available. I need to find out if he can flash it to the 230/250hp specs, or what. I'm pretty sure I have (2) o2 sensors (I remember 2 wires I disconected with the oil sump drop), but no on the TCS/ECS. Does the 01 Aero have TCS/ECS?

 

[LeoLegend]

Saab dealer will not be able to flash your ecu. The 02+ ECU have ESP not TCS so you'll run into problems there. You can flash the ECU yourself but it requires some minor electrical knowledge and computer knowledge. The 02+ motors also have a bigger cobra pipe and intake pipe which allows for the extra 250 hp.

I have done this flash myself which eliminates the torque limiters and is 250. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[nathanthepilot]

Saab dealer will not be able to flash your ecu. The 02+ ECU have ESP not TCS so you'll run into problems there. You can flash the ECU yourself but it requires some minor electrical knowledge and computer knowledge. The 02+ motors also have a bigger cobra pipe and intake pipe which allows for the extra 250 hp.

I have done this flash myself which eliminates the torque limiters and is 250. Let me know if you have any questions.

Hi LeoLegend,

I guess I'm running into more questions the deeper I get into this. I guess what I need to know is what ECU I need to buy, and what year motor I should look for if I do the swap.

Currently I am looking at either a 2000 or 2001 Aero engine. So should I be looking at getting a 2000 or 2001 ECU to go with it? Sounds like I'd get the same hp if I upgraded the cobra pipe and intake pipe later on. So.... start with a '00-'01 230hp motor with the 230hp ECU from 2000-2001 and then bolt on the intake stuff and viola I have 250hp with no other modifications (other than marrying the newer ECU to the car via Tech II) or tech II stuff needed?

What about the software and electrical knowledge needed? Is this in regards to the projectecu site? Is the flash a commercial software, or just something you did on your own? 250 dollars or hp? Sorry for my questions. I've been looking at a lot of turbo upgrade mod posts, and none of them seem to mention some of these possible issues when doing an upgrade.

 

[greenmatt]

Saab dealer will not be able to flash your ecu. The 02+ ECU have ESP not TCS so you'll run into problems there. You can flash the ECU yourself but it requires some minor electrical knowledge and computer knowledge. The 02+ motors also have a bigger cobra pipe and intake pipe which allows for the extra 250 hp.

I have done this flash myself which eliminates the torque limiters and is 250. Let me know if you have any questions.

The cobra pipes between aeros before 2006 are identical from my knowldege. I didnt think the intake pipe changed till around 2004.

 

[nathanthepilot]

So I guess a 2000 Aero engine with a 2000 or 2001 ECU will work? Just wanted to get some clarification on this before I order it. Anyone with first-hand knowledge know for sure?

 

[LeoLegend]

Hi LeoLegend,

I guess I'm running into more questions the deeper I get into this. I guess what I need to know is what ECU I need to buy, and what year motor I should look for if I do the swap.

Currently I am looking at either a 2000 or 2001 Aero engine. So should I be looking at getting a 2000 or 2001 ECU to go with it? Sounds like I'd get the same hp if I upgraded the cobra pipe and intake pipe later on. So.... start with a '00-'01 230hp motor with the 230hp ECU from 2000-2001 and then bolt on the intake stuff and viola I have 250hp with no other modifications (other than marrying the newer ECU to the car via Tech II) or tech II stuff needed?

What about the software and electrical knowledge needed? Is this in regards to the projectecu site? Is the flash a commercial software, or just something you did on your own? 250 dollars or hp? Sorry for my questions. I've been looking at a lot of turbo upgrade mod posts, and none of them seem to mention some of these possible issues when doing an upgrade.

Ok, basically this is what I did w/ a 2001 ECU. Flash a map from ECU project that was tweaked to 250hp and torque limiters removed.
http://forum.ecuproject.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=663

I think you should stick with the same year ECU and engine, then if you want to upgrade in the future you can. Going backwards from a 2002 ECU to a 2001 engine might be troublesome because of things like ESP and 5 speed transmission.

If you wanted to flash your own ECU, then yes you'll need some minor electrical knowledge as i have linked to the post above.

The SID and ECU will need to have the same responder code in order to work. You can do this with T7Suite, I'm not sure if you can do it with a Tech II.

T7Suite is free software for custom maps for the Trionic 7 ECU.

I would suggest asking some questions over at ECU project, they take a while to respond but are very knowledgeable.

 

[nathanthepilot]

Ok, basically this is what I did w/ a 2001 ECU. Flash a map from ECU project that was tweaked to 250hp and torque limiters removed.
http://forum.ecuproject.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=663

I think you should stick with the same year ECU and engine, then if you want to upgrade in the future you can. Going backwards from a 2002 ECU to a 2001 engine might be troublesome because of things like ESP and 5 speed transmission.

If you wanted to flash your own ECU, then yes you'll need some minor electrical knowledge as i have linked to the post above.

The SID and ECU will need to have the same responder code in order to work. You can do this with T7Suite, I'm not sure if you can do it with a Tech II.

T7Suite is free software for custom maps for the Trionic 7 ECU.

I would suggest asking some questions over at ECU project, they take a while to respond but are very knowledgeable.

Wow, that's quite involved to get a setup going. I guess I thought it was a little more basic with the computers. Hmm.. I suppose I'll stick with the 230hp software in the 2000/2001 ECU and have the dealer marry the ECU to my car. Maybe later down the road I'll dig into the flashing and whatnot. I don't know DOS or half of the terms in that thread! Maybe someone has all of that stuff figured out and can sell it to me. THAT would be easy! I do thank you though for looking it up!

 

[LeoLegend]

Wow, that's quite involved to get a setup going. I guess I thought it was a little more basic with the computers. Hmm.. I suppose I'll stick with the 230hp software in the 2000/2001 ECU and have the dealer marry the ECU to my car. Maybe later down the road I'll dig into the flashing and whatnot. I don't know DOS or half of the terms in that thread! Maybe someone has all of that stuff figured out and can sell it to me. THAT would be easy! I do thank you though for looking it up!

Or... you could take it to a tuner and have him flash it, but that'll cost $$

I did the whole setup for around $80, it's actually not that hard if you take it step by step, just grab a spare ecu and get out the soldering gun :cheesy:

 

[nathanthepilot]

Or... you could take it to a tuner and have him flash it, but that'll cost $$

I did the whole setup for around $80, it's actually not that hard if you take it step by step, just grab a spare ecu and get out the soldering gun :cheesy:

So does it matter what ecu I use? I could use the one from my 99 LPT when I get the Aero ECU and marry it to the car. I could keep the Aero one as my primary and have the old one to mess around with. That is a cool idea though to be able to tune my own car. It will just have to wait until I can study up on it.

 

[nathanthepilot]

I did it

I forked over the credit card and the 2001 engine is getting pulled, and will be on the way shortly. I'll let you all know how it goes so the next guy who does an Aero engine swap will know what to expect.

 

[dudethe9-5isfast]

99 -05 Cobra pipes are interchangeable but not identical

The cobra pipes between aeros before 2006 are identical from my knowldege. I didnt think the intake pipe changed till around 2004.

Over the years there are small differences in pipe bore. It is easy to miss unless you side by side compare a 99 cobra pipe & say a 2005 cobra pipe.
Yes the 2006+ is the best but that will require a 2006+ turbo to fit or having the compressor housing machined smaller - Genuine Saab does this fairly cheaply.

 

[JeeperJay]

When you receive the engine, you should probably remove the oil pan and check for sludge. If you don't know what I am talking about, use the Search feature here.

 

[bacoburn]

Hi Nathanthepilot,
A couple of flys in your ointment here... First, the Aero engine (actually all 2000 and later B235 engines) had a slightly different exhaust cam profile (valves too I think), different connecting rods (trapezoidal small end), different wrist pins, dual cats and O2 sensors with wiring to match. ECU will be wired differently. Different turbo (TD04 vice GT17) too. Now, you will end up with a 'stronger' engine at the end with an Aero engine but it will not produce a big increase in hp or torque as the ECU is not going to 'plug into' the existing wiring harness. A tuner who can tweek your current ECU might extract some additional benefits from either engine.

Also, the Aero's auto transmission is slightly beefier to handle the additional torque. My info states 310nm max for the standard auto box, 350nm for the Aero. I can't reference any difference in the manual transmissions between the models. Remember that the 5-speed is the weaker transmission in these models.

BC

 

[greenmatt]

Over the years there are small differences in pipe bore. It is easy to miss unless you side by side compare a 99 cobra pipe & say a 2005 cobra pipe.
Yes the 2006+ is the best but that will require a 2006+ turbo to fit or having the compressor housing machined smaller - Genuine Saab does this fairly cheaply.

I know the non aero earlier models were different and smaller. Did they change the part numbers or just modify the casting?