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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys,

I'm at stage 5 to 6.
-3" Krona downpipe
-Kinugawa TD04-19T turbo
-630cc Siemens Deka injectors
-Intake

Not fast enough. Where to now?. Can I drop in forged pistons and rods at 170,000klm?.

I don't think there is any limitations with the 19T and injectors. Motor can be given more air and fuel.

I want 350+hp dang nammit. I want to smash EVO's and wreck wrex's (WRX).

Peter
 

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I doubt I would get a Holden to go as quick as a SAAB for $6,000. And I seriously doubt a Holden would handle as well as a SAAB.
"all power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

no matter what power you have, you will always get used to it, and want more.

power costs money. I suggest you do what I do , when I decide I need more power. I go drive a Yaris or a base Nissan rogue with cvt. Then I get back in my bone stock saab and its a freaking monster rocket.
 

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Good solid mature thinking Qwik.

Hi everybody, my name is Jeff and I have been sober for 9 years, 4 months and eleven days. I was a GenuineSaab (Taliaferro), SpeedParts, Group 9, Nordic, MP Performance, Abbott Racing, Jak Stoll and Forge user for eighteen years. You name it, I stuck it in my car. I had a hundred dollar a day habit, and I literally could not get enough. I hit rock bottom when my 5 speed 1995 turbo convertible was making 340 hp at the crank and I discovered that there were no viable, affordable and streetable options for transmitting the truckloads of torque accompanying that power to the driven wheels. I had spent years sweating and hemorrhaging cash to get to that 340 hp figure and I was all dressed up with places to go and no way to get to them. Clutch issues clutched at my heart, as well as my wallet.

In group, they took me back to my days of youthful enthusiasm, when I had a 250 cubic inch Nova that became a 350 cubic inch Malibu that then turned into a 239 cubic inch Buick Regal Limited. These were all big lumps of cast iron carbureted monstrosities that had numerous things in common - they were as slow as a 5 year old eating spinach, they were as thirsty as sailors on shore leave, they handled like pigs on ice skates, and they were satisfying to drive, in the sense that getting socks for Christmas is satisfying. Transitioning into little European cars with tiny naturally aspirated inline fours and manual transmissions was easy, affordable and brought a little fun back into driving.

My little 5 speed 1980 Rabbit convertible with its under 2 liter displacement motor was under-powered and had no torque, as in it struggled to go up any appreciable grade in fifth gear even with a long running start. But rowing the 5 speed handled that and it was ok fun. My 1982 Lancia Zagato with its fuel injected DOHC fuel injected engine only made 118 hp, but it was a blast to drive. It was probably the best handling FWD car I was ever in. Coming from the factory as it did, with ground clearance that put caterpillars crossing the road in peril likely helped with that.

When the Lancia was sufficiently rotted from rust belt daily driving, and with parts availability having been a major issue from the day I bought it, seeing as how Fiat/Lancia had already withdrawn from the North American market, I discovered Saab, in 1990.

I went through a number of satisfying iterations of naturally aspirated C900s before finally permitting myself to luxuriate in the best of all possible worlds of automobilia - the little forced induction wonders that get decent mileage and deliver spirited performance. Group therapy brought me the realization that all things are relative. And that brought to me the small satori that just because we can turn our vehicles into road warriors, doesn't always mean we should.

So, say it with me, folks.

God grant me the serenity
To accept the horsepower that I have;
Courage to tune when it is prudent;
And wisdom to know when enough is enough.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting a little less hp as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful automobile world
As it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
If I surrender to His Will;
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life
And supremely happy with Him
Forever and ever in the next.
Amen.

It works if you work it, so work it.
 

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That was a sobering post.
After reading all of today and planning what mods to get and in what order.
I'm now wondering what if at all I should do.
Got my 2004 93T vert and had GRAND PLANS --
Krona from turbo back -- bigger DO88 intercooler -- cold air intake
front strut--coil overs -- 60#injectors-and of course go fast cars need stop fast brakes.
Now I don't drive the car everyday, I just want a sleeper to leave people in the dust and to get slammed into the back of my seat every now and then.
 

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Is this a verified 285 to the wheels? Ive owned and DD a 2013 stage 2 wrx. AWD and FWD is the main thing separating these cars otherwise from a roll and the good shift points my 2004 saab with 3 exhaust from turbo, intake stage 2 and tune work done to it and sitting 18inch wheels will def slam you in the back of your seat and give wrx and evo’s a run for their money at 50+mph

Plus youre a wonky stage 5/6 if that’s all youve done. At stage 5/6 every performance part possible so be put on that car. intercooler and full intake piping at a minimum with a fuel pump as well. Def some suspension/tires too. All these things help the car not only produce power but put it down effectively.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Good solid mature thinking Qwik.

Hi everybody, my name is Jeff and I have been sober for 9 years, 4 months and eleven days. I was a GenuineSaab (Taliaferro), SpeedParts, Group 9, Nordic, MP Performance, Abbott Racing, Jak Stoll and Forge user for eighteen years. You name it, I stuck it in my car. I had a hundred dollar a day habit, and I literally could not get enough. I hit rock bottom when my 5 speed 1995 turbo convertible was making 340 hp at the crank and I discovered that there were no viable, affordable and streetable options for transmitting the truckloads of torque accompanying that power to the driven wheels. I had spent years sweating and hemorrhaging cash to get to that 340 hp figure and I was all dressed up with places to go and no way to get to them. Clutch issues clutched at my heart, as well as my wallet.

In group, they took me back to my days of youthful enthusiasm, when I had a 250 cubic inch Nova that became a 350 cubic inch Malibu that then turned into a 239 cubic inch Buick Regal Limited. These were all big lumps of cast iron carbureted monstrosities that had numerous things in common - they were as slow as a 5 year old eating spinach, they were as thirsty as sailors on shore leave, they handled like pigs on ice skates, and they were satisfying to drive, in the sense that getting socks for Christmas is satisfying. Transitioning into little European cars with tiny naturally aspirated inline fours and manual transmissions was easy, affordable and brought a little fun back into driving.

My little 5 speed 1980 Rabbit convertible with its under 2 liter displacement motor was under-powered and had no torque, as in it struggled to go up any appreciable grade in fifth gear even with a long running start. But rowing the 5 speed handled that and it was ok fun. My 1982 Lancia Zagato with its fuel injected DOHC fuel injected engine only made 118 hp, but it was a blast to drive. It was probably the best handling FWD car I was ever in. Coming from the factory as it did, with ground clearance that put caterpillars crossing the road in peril likely helped with that.

When the Lancia was sufficiently rotted from rust belt daily driving, and with parts availability having been a major issue from the day I bought it, seeing as how Fiat/Lancia had already withdrawn from the North American market, I discovered Saab, in 1990.

I went through a number of satisfying iterations of naturally aspirated C900s before finally permitting myself to luxuriate in the best of all possible worlds of automobilia - the little forced induction wonders that get decent mileage and deliver spirited performance. Group therapy brought me the realization that all things are relative. And that brought to me the small satori that just because we can turn our vehicles into road warriors, doesn't always mean we should.

So, say it with me, folks.

God grant me the serenity
To accept the horsepower that I have;
Courage to tune when it is prudent;
And wisdom to know when enough is enough.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting a little less hp as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful automobile world
As it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
If I surrender to His Will;
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life
And supremely happy with Him
Forever and ever in the next.
Amen.

It works if you work it, so work it.
The voice of reason, as always, props to you sir!
 

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I posted that partially in jest but mostly in truth.

When I was avidly into upgrading everything, 3 possible results tended to manifest themselves:
The first was a noticeable performance improvement in the system being upgraded without negative effect on other systems of the car or the driving experience; the second was no discernible before and after difference; and the third was achieving an appreciable improvement in the system being upgraded which detracted from the overall enjoyment of the driving experience, either because the improved performance aspect exacerbated a weakness in some other system or where the performance improvement to the system had unwanted side-effects on the system being modified.

It was the old Woody Hayes chestnut: "When you pass, three things can happen, and two of them are bad."

In particular, the engine modifications were mostly great, but only up to a point. That point was truly reached when it went from being a pleasure to daily drive the car, to being a chore. This was especially true with getting the power to the ground. The Spec clutches I went through trying to get a combination that could handle the torque while remaining streetable were simply not up to the task. The lesson here was that I had gone too far in my quest for more power. The car was no longer suitable for its essential purpose - being a daily driver on public streets.

Many of the modifications to the suspension were either not worth it (strut braces and the like) because the differences they made, if any, were rarely or barely noticeable, or because they detracted from the daily driving experience (poly bushes in everything) by making the car rattle and bang over the slightest road imperfection, which is decidedly less than desirable on roads in the rust belt.

When I bought the current car, I was older and presumably wiser. I bought it knowing that there was a debate about how much the engine could could make safely and reliably. That debate continues, with some claiming 320ish hp is the cap and others saying it is much higher. But being a geezer now and spending considerably less time under the car these days, that is moot to me. When I bought this car, I had already made up my mind that I would tune it and otherwise leave it alone. Admittedly, I miss hot rodding, but I content myself with doing other things to it. Like simple maintenance and improving the feel of the shifting (the GS cable shift modification was actually worth every red cent).


In a nutshell, I learned this: In my quest to make the car what it is not (a super car), I undid what it was (a reasonably well balanced daily driver with spirited performance), and turned it into neither.
 

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That was a sobering post.
After reading all of today and planning what mods to get and in what order.
I'm now wondering what if at all I should do.
Got my 2004 93T vert and had GRAND PLANS --
Krona from turbo back -- bigger DO88 intercooler -- cold air intake
front strut--coil overs -- 60#injectors-and of course go fast cars need stop fast brakes.
Now I don't drive the car everyday, I just want a sleeper to leave people in the dust and to get slammed into the back of my seat every now and then.
after reading Saaabhoeme's excellent prayer, and you still have insane urges check your list with my one word comments (proven in fact)
Krona from turbo back DRONE -- bigger DO88 intercooler COOL-- cold air intake USELESS
front strut--coil overs HORRIBLE-- 60#injectors- WASTE and of course go fast cars need stop fast brakes. USEFUL
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I remember reading somewhere that air in = torque.

I used torque pro and a kiwi 2 to measure airflow in. It was 1340 cfm.
 

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Do you have drag strips in Australia? Take the car to the drag strip and learn how to run it. The final trap speed is a pretty good indication of horsepower.


With a 300+ HP car, you should be running over 100 MPH, though the 1/4 mile time may be over 14.X seconds due to poor launches.



This is also an easy way to see if any new modes do, indeed, increase horsepower. In my experience, they mostly don't. (Not on a Saab, mind you.)


If the car blows up the first time you run it down the drag strip, it's obviously not only not faster than a Yaris, it's slower than a grandma, because a grandma can still move if she's alive.
 

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Hi Guys,

I'm at stage 5 to 6.
-3" Krona downpipe
-Kinugawa TD04-19T turbo
-630cc Siemens Deka injectors
-Intake

Not fast enough. Where to now?. Can I drop in forged pistons and rods at 170,000klm?.

I don't think there is any limitations with the 19T and injectors. Motor can be given more air and fuel.

I want 350+hp dang nammit. I want to smash EVO's and wreck wrex's (WRX).

Peter
I feel like if 350+ HP (wheel or crank, by the way?) was your goal all along, you should have started with something else. Going from 200 HP or so to 350 is a 75% jump in power. You CAN do it, but you’re going to invest some good money... likely more than you paid for the car, honestly. And when you’re done dumping thousands into the motor, you’ll find the rest of the car cannot keep up. Putting 350 WHP in your car would likely crush the transmission (if automatic) or clutch (if manual). Fuel system probably won’t keep up, tires won’t be beefy enough for good launches, breaking driveline parts when you do add sticky tires, etc. The list goes on and on... ask me how I know. :cheesy:
 

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You definitely need to look at a +75% mod holistically - it's not just a couple of bolt-ons. But, I do think it should be attainable without ruining the car. Buddy's '86 SPG made 270 crank hp (+70%) and was a very streetable car. My XR4Ti makes 280 crank hp (+86%) and is a riot. The Ecotec motor is a MUCH better starting place than an old B202 or even older Lima 2.3l, but you're going to need the same rpm+breathing+software work to make it happen.
 

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No such thing as easy when you are trying to nearly double horsepower. I would start with software - get some monitoring on there, see where you are getting pinched and where you have room for growth and act accordingly. Buy some dyno time, get some data logging on afr and egt and make a plan. Just bolting parts on and expecting stock software to figure it out is - IMHO - never gonna get you anywhere. You have some decent hardware on there now - you need to find a tuner who can help you maximize that investment.
 

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If you have the resources and desire to learn, I definitely recommend downloading T8 Suite and learning to tune the car yourself. Many people in the Saab community have found that tuning your car yourself is the easiest way to get the performance gains you strive for.

Otherwise drop money on the Wössner pistons + an upgraded fuel pump and grab Maptun's Stage 6 E85 tune that's rated for 370HP. Maptun's XT hybrid turbo isn't too different from the 19T. Just let them know what upgrades you have.
 

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Hi Guys,

I'm at stage 5 to 6.
-3" Krona downpipe
-Kinugawa TD04-19T turbo
-630cc Siemens Deka injectors
-Intake

Not fast enough. Where to now?. Can I drop in forged pistons and rods at 170,000klm?.

I don't think there is any limitations with the 19T and injectors. Motor can be given more air and fuel.

I want 350+hp dang nammit. I want to smash EVO's and wreck wrex's (WRX).

Peter
That big 19T probably isn't getting enough air, because of the smaller piping. I have full 3 inch bolt ons with a td04-16t and pushing 320 horsepower with a fat torque curve and am currently destroying STI's and those new WRX's with bolt ons. Plus you can find a motor for these cars with super low miles for under $2,000, I would just buy a new motor and swap in the pistons so you don't have to worry about your valves and everything else that has 130k miles on it.
 
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