[Hirschmann & Koxha]

280HP are not doable to due exhaust back pressure.
Even with the combo @bob3000 described you will choke out at 350HP.

Stock IC will go bonkers too (you will be unable to maintain that power under warm temperatures).

 

[Brettzammitt]

I think 280hp is achievable, just not consistently (due to high EGT). Yes, the stock IC will also heat soak and pull timing after a pull or two in warmer weather.

 

[Hirschmann & Koxha]

Do you have OpenSID enabled and can tell us how much airmass you are pushing?

 

[Brettzammitt]

Do you have OpenSID enabled and can tell us how much airmass you are pushing?

Yes I do. Any specific gear? Want mREQ and mAIR?

 

[Hirschmann & Koxha]

mReq will be enough since it will tell you how much airmass is targeted to be achieved.
Usually in 5th gear you the maximum power should be achieved and therefore the airmass should be the highest.

 

[EdT]

The '04 Arc still came factory with the TD04HL-15T (Aero turbo). Just an Aero ECU flash would bring it to Aero spec of 250hp. You don't think an extra 32hp (13%) could be made with just software from there? Aggressive timing, fuel tables, air mass request, etc. My '05 Aero had a stage 2 tune (with just open air intake) that was claimed to be 280hp/310tq with just a software flash, I believe it. Look how it hung with a 300hp BMW 335xi:

The 250 HP B235R already was specified for 93 AON to get full performance. How much closer to the edge is a tune in order to get a 32 more HP? And does it have the safety trips to pull back power if things start to go south? Or to handle less-than-93+ octane fuel?

There is a limit to "just add more boost", and after that you have to improve breathing, raise RPM, etc. Or redesign the engine.

So far, all my Saabs have recommended 90 AON, which is easy enough to get. And 87 AON shouldn't kill them if that's what I have to use.

 

[Brettzammitt]

mReq will be enough since it will tell you how much airmass is targeted to be achieved.
Usually in 5th gear you the maximum power should be achieved and therefore the airmass should be the highest.

Looks like 1380. I’m sure someone can do the calculation from air mass to HP

 

[Joshinator99]

It's on the graph he sends with his tune. I am pretty sure he sends one for all his tunes. Other tuners do the same. Again, it's not like he literally says "your car now makes x HP". He sends a graph of the powerband that his ECU tune is calling for. Whether the car actually makes that power has to do with the condition of each car. But he sends this paper along with a data log that has your specific immobilizer code/VIN. So if he has been doing this for a while and has good reviews chances are, the ECU is really calling for those numbers, and your car is trying to get to those numbers. I don't see a reason to call him a liar. He has been doing saab tunes since 1999 (I've had a handful of conversations with him) and if his claims were untrue, I would think we would know in this small saab community.

View attachment 295211

Out of curiosity, it looks like your tuner is commanding 100% injector duty cycle from 4300-6000 RPM…?!? You cannot command 100% injector DC as the injector is static at that point and bad things are in your future lol…. Furthermore, if you need to command 100% DC at 4300 RPM then you sure as hell don’t have enough injector at 6000 RPM…! I don’t do any Saab tuning these days so maybe I’m misunderstanding your picture? But it doesn’t look good at face value.

 

[Brettzammitt]

Out of curiosity, it looks like your tuner is commanding 100% injector duty cycle from 4300-6000 RPM…?!? You cannot command 100% injector DC as the injector is static at that point and bad things are in your future lol…. Furthermore, if you need to command 100% DC at 4300 RPM then you sure as hell don’t have enough injector at 6000 RPM…! I don’t do any Saab tuning these days so maybe I’m misunderstanding your picture? But it doesn’t look good at face value.

I’ve seen that as well. I’ve also seen tunes on other platforms (Subaru for example), where tuners are demanding over 100% DC…probably worth inquiring about but I imagine with any tuner and stock injectors on the B235R, it’d be similar. My car doesn’t pull any timing and Amul is negative, which means a little fuel is actually being pulled by the ECU (from my understanding)

 

[Joshinator99]

I’ve seen that as well. I’ve also seen tunes on other platforms (Subaru for example), where tuners are demanding over 100% DC…probably worth inquiring about but I imagine with any tuner and stock injectors on the B235R, it’d be similar. My car doesn’t pull any timing and Amul is negative, which means a little fuel is actually being pulled by the ECU (from my understanding)

If you guys aren’t running a wideband when running tunes…well, you guys are too crazy for me lol! I ALWAYS have my wideband running and I datalog every single run at the strip so that I can see fueling, knock, etc. The AEM 30-0334 wideband communicates via canbus so I can datalog wideband readings along with everything else. So if a tuner is commanding 100+% DC, having the wideband will make sure all is well.

 

[bob3000]

Gents, an engines HP can be pretty closely determined by looking at MAF values.

Okay, I give, how do you do that math?

I've been trying to use various online calculators and formulas and as far as I can figure my car has about a zillion horses of power...yay me!

 

[Joshinator99]

Okay, I give, how do you do that math?

I've been trying to use various online calculators and formulas and as far as I can figure my car has about a zillion horses of power...yay me!

Are you able to convert your MAF readings into lbs/min? Multiply that times 10 to give you crank horsepower (not wheel horsepower). If your car is bone stock that should correlate to factory BHP ratings, within reason of course.

On a FWD car, I’d multiply BHP (crank HP) times maybe .88 to get estimated WHP. If you dyno the vehicle and have a WHP number, you could divide WHP by .88 to get BHP. I’m estimating 12% drivetrain loss, you guys might have a better number based on experience. An auto transmission will have a tick more loss and a manual is usually less loss. An XWD vehicle with an auto transmission can have a lot more drivetrain loss as per my example above. But the MAF airflow in lbs/min times 10 is pretty handy.

 

[Germaniac]

Got ten of these on my tailgate. Problem solved.

 

[jvanabra]

You have to carry the one.

 

[bob3000]

Are you able to convert your MAF readings into lbs/min?

Just trying to use brettzammits' 1380 mreq number, I don't have open SID.

 

[Saaberachi]

If you guys aren’t running a wideband when running tunes…well, you guys are too crazy for me lol! I ALWAYS have my wideband running and I datalog every single run at the strip so that I can see fueling, knock, etc. The AEM 30-0334 wideband communicates via canbus so I can datalog wideband readings along with everything else. So if a tuner is commanding 100+% DC, having the wideband will make sure all is well.

View attachment 295226

Those are some sweet guages! Would that Banks work on a t7 saab?

 

[Joshinator99]

Those are some sweet guages! Would that Banks work on a t7 saab?

Thanks! Good question, I’d guess yes but you should reach out to Banks. They make the Super Gauge and then the same thing, but a data logging version call Data Monster.

Banks iDash: SuperGauge & DataMonster

The Banks iDash is the smallest, most powerful plug-n-play OBD-II monitor and control interface on the market with data logging capability. Fully integrates with existing Banks Tuners, Sensor Modules and Throttle Controllers.

bankspower.com

 

[Joshinator99]

Just trying to use brettzammits' 1380 mreq number, I don't have open SID.

That number could be anything… MAF frequency, grams/sec, etc. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about Saab ECUs will chime in.

 

[Brettzammitt]

That number could be anything… MAF frequency, grams/sec, etc. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about Saab ECUs will chime in.

mReq is requested airmass in milligrams on a single combustion

 

[KevinC]

Lost in all the debate about precise numbers is what you want, and are getting.

Your car, on good fuel, very likely can make 282hp as specified. However it can only do it for say 10 seconds, Which may well be enough for your needs.

I know that a Maptun tune for 282hp with supporting hardware as specified can deliver it for 20 minutes on the autobahn, as many of there customers including me do put to the test. Very different tune and capability. If keeping your license in USA, and never spending cruising time > 100mph is the application, ten seconds of 282hp is all you will ever need, Horses for courses.