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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've touched on this in a previous post but thought it deserved a thread of it's own because it has a direct effect on why we have a back to front engine and the need to incorporate an existing design with a front wheel drive transmission package. I've pasted articles culled from several sources that may well be of interest to the younger members who haven't lived through this history.

The Triumph Slant-4 is an engine developed by Triumph. According to Triumph historians Graham Robson and Richard Langworth in Triumph Cars, the complete story, the engine was developed in-house by a design team led by Lewis Dawtry and Harry Webster.
The UK engineering and consultancy company Ricardo, which did have a general engine-development contract with Triumph, was not directly involved with its design, but was usually kept informed of anything new being planned. Ricardo was involved in developing a new engine for Saab, as a replacement for their aging Saab two-stroke and V4 units. When that development proved too expensive and risky to produce, Ricardo, knowing the slant-4 was almost ready for production, brought Saab into contact with Triumph.
Saab first used the Triumph Slant-4 at 1.7 L (1709 cc) for the Saab 99. Only later, as production capacity increased, did it become available in Triumphs. Development by Saab continued into the 1990s. The engine is a straight-4 with the cylinders tilted at 45 degrees (actually in effect half of the Triumph V8 that was used in the Triumph Stag).
The engine was used by Triumph in the Dolomite 1850, the Dolomite Sprint, and the TR7. It was also used by Panther in the Dolomite-based Rio (1975-1977). Triumph ended manufacture of the engine when the TR7 was discontinued in 1981.

Triumph added unique SOHC 4-valve cylinder heads to the Slant-4 for 1973's Dolomite Sprint. This is regarded as the first mass-produced multi-valve car engine.

Saab later increased the engine size to 1.85 L and in 1972 the company brought production in-house (to Scania) for the 2.0 L B version. This engine shared much with the original Triumph design, including bore centers and bearings, but was substantially redesigned. The Saab B engine was replaced by the related Saab H engine.

I've included several pics of the Triumph Dolomite Sprint engine that some of you will find very familiar, a Dolomite Block and head. Now that does look familiar.
 

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I believe the 1854cc that was in Saabs for a while is exactly that used in Dolomite 1850s, so if you bought a Saab 1.85L now you should be able to get parts quite easily in the UK. I think all 99s were using the 1985cc 'B' engine by 1975.

I used to have a '73 2.0 B-series 99L. It was older than me!
 

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I believe the 1854cc that was in Saabs for a while is exactly that used in Dolomite 1850s, so if you bought a Saab 1.85L now you should be able to get parts quite easily in the UK.
<raises eyebrow>
I think I've seen a lot more 99s in the wild in the UK than Dolomites over the last... oooh... decade or so.

And I've not seen many 99s.

Peva - you forget to mention the subtle difference between the Dolly Sprint head & the Saab 16v head.



Has any other manufacturer ever been daft enough to do a single-cam OHV 4v head? Very interesting solution to a question nobody asked, imho. Sprints were cracking cars - my mother had two back in the day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Peva - you forget to mention the subtle difference between the Dolly Sprint head & the Saab 16v head.

Has any other manufacturer ever been daft enough to do a single-cam OHV 4v head? Very interesting solution to a question nobody asked, imho. Sprints were cracking cars - my mother had two back in the day.
Yes Adrian, but I thought no one would believe it. It's crazy but nice. Here's another pic. Just imagine, we could have had that on our Saabs. Just imagine getting the plugs out.
 

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Has any other manufacturer ever been daft enough to do a single-cam OHV 4v head? Very interesting solution to a question nobody asked, imho. Sprints were cracking cars - my mother had two back in the day.
Honda ;)

The Isuzu-GM Duramax diesel V8 even has 32 valves and only one camshaft in the middle of the block, 4 valve pushrod :p
 

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Although the triumph V8 angle might be same as 4cyl Saab,and not quite half CC the dolomite sprint head would not fit on the V8 or you would have had a tremendously powerfull engine for it's day. but the in house politcs at BL decided not to use the Rover /buick 3.5 V8 which would have done the job and saved a fortune.
The Saab slant 4engine and Triumph was produced on the same line, the main difference, at the start, was that the bore was different to triumph, in that the bore for the sleeve was one size and the piston bore different as well, but due to my fathers input, they eventually bored all blocks the same then put the different bore liners in thus any triumph block was a saab block just with difference in cc liners, as otherwise all you could tell was that saab had a saab rocker and Triumph a Triumph, as alternators,starters etc were all the same? and apparently he told me that Saab had'nt the facility to build the engine, when they needed it, so it finished up a joint effort, but with small variations, Triumph providing the amchining etc expertise and Sabbproviding the drawing's /technology side, but a joint effort till Saab had the capacity to build it themselves, probably after triumph had shut down in 1979, and the TR7 being finished /made at Rover, and please 'NOTE' the Triumph Acclaim, never was a Truimph it was made at logbridge after Triumph had closed, and had a Honda 1300 cc twin carb engine.
and the Rover SD1 2.6 engine was originally the Triumph 2000/2500 cc engine bored to 2.6 and fitted with an overhead cam head instead of the pushrod triumph
 

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and please 'NOTE' the Triumph Acclaim, never was a Truimph it was made at logbridge after Triumph had closed, and had a Honda 1300 cc twin carb engine.
It was a straight rebadge of the Honda Ballade, of course. A sad end.

and the Rover SD1 2.6 engine was originally the Triumph 2000/2500 cc engine bored to 2.6 and fitted with an overhead cam head instead of the pushrod triumph
Never knew that...

And, of course, we have a full-circle there back to Saab, since the Rover v8 was originally a GM design...
 

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Saab should have done a 3ltr 6 cyl and copy triumph from the early days when the original 4cyl herald 997 cc engine, was made into a 6cyl 1600 cc straight 6 and later the 1300 cc 4 became the 2000 straight six cost minimal as extra length of block /head and crankshaft, rocker shaft all other bits/machining were the same just think of what might have been a 3ltr Saab slant 6 extra bit on bonnet like an XJS etc and speed/ acceleration awesome
P.s. if you look at Honda motor cycle engines and look at there multiple engines, using singles and twins upwards, that's all they ever did, so minimes costs but have new engines for little outlay
e.g honda singlec90, x2 =175 twin x2 =350/4
350 twin x2 = 750/4 and 1000/6 with a bit of bore/ stroke alteration
 

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Saab should have done a 3ltr 6 cyl and copy triumph from the early days when the original 4cyl herald 997 cc engine, was made into a 6cyl 1600 cc straight 6 and later the 1300 cc 4 became the 2000 straight six cost minimal as extra length of block /head and crankshaft, rocker shaft all other bits/machining were the same just think of what might have been a 3ltr Saab slant 6 extra bit on bonnet like an XJS etc and speed/ acceleration awesome
P.s. if you look at Honda motor cycle engines and look at there multiple engines, using singles and twins upwards, that's all they ever did, so minimes costs but have new engines for little outlay
e.g honda singlec90, x2 =175 twin x2 =350/4
350 twin x2 = 750/4 and 1000/6 with a bit of bore/ stroke alteration
Sixes are wimpy and too long, I very much liked Saab's V8 idea that they had in a couple of 9000 prototypes too bad that one didn't show for production :(
 

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V8 4ltr be a real gas guzzler, and doubt if FWD would take the torque, have you ever driven an 3.6 XJS?? smooth power delivery /acceleration, 32 mpg auto 4 speed
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Saab should have done a 3ltr 6 cyl and copy triumph from the early days when the original 4cyl herald 997 cc engine, was made into a 6cyl 1600 cc straight 6 and later the 1300 cc 4 became the 2000 straight six cost minimal as extra length of block /head and crankshaft, rocker shaft all other bits/machining were the same just think of what might have been a 3ltr Saab slant 6 extra bit on bonnet like an XJS etc and speed/ acceleration awesome
When I was a young lad, my dad had a couple of those Triumph straight six Vitesses. First a 1600, then a 2L. I loved those engines. Didn't seem to be run-in for about 30K miles, when they really loosened up. I thought they were very quick and torquey for the day. Exciting handling with those swing axles jacking up on corners. Should have had a de-dion set-up. That would have been something.
 

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So, you could theoretically wedge a SAAB 16v H-engine under the bonnet of a Triumph Dolomite, yes?

And the 900 gearbox is the only thing preventing us from putting a 2.3 crank in the 2.0 H-engine block, yes?

So theoretically you could make a 2.3 turbo Triumph Dolly, with SAAB block and a custom oil pan, bolted to the Dolly Sprint drivetrain, yes???
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So, you could theoretically wedge a SAAB 16v H-engine under the bonnet of a Triumph Dolomite, yes?

And the 900 gearbox is the only thing preventing us from putting a 2.3 crank in the 2.0 H-engine block, yes?

So theoretically you could make a 2.3 turbo Triumph Dolly, with SAAB block and a custom oil pan, bolted to the Dolly Sprint drivetrain, yes???
Theoretically all answers yes. Are you serious? Anybody done this?
 

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Well, I had this idea about a month ago, and I've been googling to see if anybody's done it. I always see vagaries about putting a SAAB engine in a Dolomite but I've never seen pictures of it done. It sure does make me wonder. If anybody did that, it would be a monster! The Dolly already has that BMW sort of air about it, and the Sprint version was designed to be a direct competitor to BMW--I think an H-engine powered Triumph would be enough to knock the socks off even a modern M3! The best thing would be the looks it would leave on people's faces, wondering "what the hell is that??":cheesy::D

This is the closest thing I've seen to anybody doing it:
http://www.saabscene.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31638043
He stopped posting a bit of the way through the conversion, using a 2.0 t in a Spitfire. Don't know if he ever finished.

I see people are talking about going the other way
http://www.saabrally.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1535
 

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the Triumph 2000 engine was in the TriumphGT6 which was a spitfire with a hatch back boot lit and a raised centre of bonnet for looks, but was nippy lol but a friend of mine once purchased a Herald( same engine?/ chassis as spitfire) and the p/o had put a 2500Pi engine in it and he said it was absolutly awesoime but scary at the same time as there was 'nothing' on the road to compare,150mph in the 70's... as you had a car that had originally started of with a 998cc sigle carb engine now with a 2500pi engine so wieght ratio to cc was a big difference,
re putting a v8 in the Dolomite,
the TR7 had the bored out 1885 cc dollly engine to 2ltr like the Saab, and eventually they put the rover V8 in a named it the TR8, 5h1t of a shovel comes to mind and I had a go in a brand new auto one sheer speed/acceleration, but these were rear wheel drive cars not fwd
 

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the TR7 had the bored out 1885 cc dollly engine to 2ltr like the Saab, and eventually they put the rover V8 in a named it the TR8, 5h1t of a shovel comes to mind and I had a go in a brand new auto one sheer speed/acceleration, but these were rear wheel drive cars not fwd
Did they ever actually sell the TR8, though? Think they might have done a handful for the US, and some rally homologation specials, but the vast majority are conversions.

I got quite tempted by a rather tidy looking TR7 v8 convertible for sale locally last summer - only about £1,500. Probably a narrow escape...
 
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