SaabCentral Forums banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
After finding myself stranded for a couple of hours waiting for the neutral switch to cool off (yes dumped plenty of water over it- just decided it wanted to give me a hard time)

I decided to bypass it once and for all, I had replaced it with a new one only a year prior and now realize it's a fatal flaw by GM, there is just too much heat down there from the engine, turbo and gearbox

On Average it plays up maybe once or twice a week, it always plays up after 5 minutes of driving, stopping in to get fuel and to find it will not start when taking off..Frustrating!

simple fix is in the pics

Attach a red wire to the 87 pin
Attach a black one to the 30 pin on the relay(relay is under the dash)

run the wires to spare slot on the dash, attach it to a momentum button(costs $10)..all done in 15 min!

next time it plays up turn the ignition and push the button!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,196 Posts
Quickest low cost solution I have seen yet. All others involved running new wires through the firewall.

Just be cautious when selecting wire gage and the momentary contact switch. You may be jumpering a low amperage control circuit or you may be jumpering a much higher amperage power circuit. Make sure the wire and switch contacts can handle the current.

But the problem is actually a Toyota or Aisin AW (owned by Toyota) problem. If affects all car brands using this same transmisison and not just Saab.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I Used a thicker wire gage, same as the gage on the NSS switch, the Button handles up to 20 amps and is never run for more then a second, car starts right up

It's only used when the car doesn't start normally after a run, never used in the mornings and when the car has cooled

Have had it installed now for a few days and used it once(with summer hitting Sydney , it will no doubt be used more frequently) ...Great feeling to have car that is finally reliable again!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
777 Posts
I bought a "20 amp" button, but when I got it it only says 16 amp. Do you think the 16 amp button would be ok?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
thanks Saabricci,
My 2001 9-5 looks different from yours. Most of my panel buttons and unused panel slots are on the left. That's minor. The problem is locating the panel with the purple relay covers. You say it is under the dash, but there doesn't seem to be a simple cover removal like on the fuse panel on the side of the dash. Is the procedure to unscrew something so that can drop down? Is the 87 pin also on this relay panel?

Regarding questions about the amperage of the wire and switch, most wire is rated at 110 volts, so common household wire at 15 amps is over 1500 watts. The car runs at 12 volts. The starter relay is 30 amps, so that's less than 400 watts. Switches are similarly rated at 110v. Bottom line -- almost any wire and switch will work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,730 Posts
The relay box is white and the cover has a torx screw which you need to undo...........have a good look in the footwell its recessed just under the steering wheel....cant remember if you have to drop the panel just above your knees first though(four torx from memory)
Pic 2 shows the cover dropped down screw removed.

Its in the same place its just you drive on the right side of the road to I guess :)

Its a bit fiddily but easy when you can find it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
I'm having a No Crank issue until like the 10th time then it cranks and starts. So NSS right? Plus would the bypass work on a 2006 9-5?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
'04 9-5 Aero NSS VooDoo Lightshow HELP PLEASE!!

Any Help PLEASE!?

My 2004 9-5 Aero Sportwagon has had worsening frequency NSS "no-crank" for months; cold and warm start attempts. Usually, within 5 min of moving auto shift around and back to "P", trying again and again, finding success sometimes by holding key in the "start" position ~20 sec.

Saw another forum post re: NSS bypass describing jumpering Starter Relay #30 with #87 (but the pic showed jumping 30 & 86). I went w/ pic and used a jumper-wire between 30 & 86. The car's starter engaged when the key was turned to the first position, the "On" position, and the car started. I turned it off and tried again; with the same results. Figured I could live with that scenario, so I buttoned things up and drove away.

Within about four minutes of driving, a lot of lights lit-up on my instrument display, brake icons among them, so I tapped the brakes and those "extra" icons turned off, and the display returned to "normal". I was wondering w/ my very limited, lizard-like mechanical mind WTF had happened. I continued about 8 miles to the grocery store, turned off the car, and the car remains there still...18 miles from my home...and I REALLY NEED TO get mobile again.

Being an inveterate mechanical idiot, I tried removing the jumper-wire from 30 & 86 and replaced the relay, and doing my "normal" voodoo and coaxing my Swedish Sled to arise for me, but it wouldn't turn-over. That intractable bone-head that I am convinced me to try 30 & 87 as stated, but not depicted, which had no apparent effect. No starter engagement at either the "On", nor the "Start" positions. I again removed the jumper and tried au natural, without any success.

My car has always made contiguous noises (3 tones/ ~1.5 sec) when I'd attempt to start it but no starter engagement; normal energizing of systems, I surmised. Those noises have not ever changed.

Anyone suggest my best course of action?

Why the very brief idiot-light-show and the subsequent NOT Fixed result? My initial jumpering seemed to be clean enough, without any renegade strands of the jumper-wire making unintended contact elsewhere.

My car sits 18 miles away from home, cold, probably feeling neglected, and I MUST GET IT RUNNING AGAIN; CHEAPLY AND SOON PREFERRED!!

Does it make sense to try the connection between the #36 fuse and the #87 contact on the Starter Relay? Does it NEED a momentary switch if I'm certain to be in P or N?

Any assistance will be GREATLY appreciated.

-Old Fart w/ NO Mechanical Knowledge, but OVER 1 Million SAAB miles logged...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,559 Posts
Well, you really messed something up


86 is the connection to the NSS
87 is the connection to the starter solenoid
30 is the connection to the battery
85 is the connection to the TWICE


what is supposed to happen is that the starter switch in the key is connected to the battery on one end and to the NSS on the other. If the NSS is closed then the current flows from the batter, through they starter switch, through the NSS and then through 86-85 in the starter relay. 85 is connected to the TWICE which grounds this if the key is good and that trips the relay.

When the relay is tripped it switches current from the battery (30) to (87)the starter solenoid and turns the starter. The original post put a momentary switch between 30 and 87. Then you turn the car on and push the button, the starter turns, release the button and it stops.

OK, so what you did was connect the battery to 86, which is the pin that comes from the NSS and then the key switch. So as soon as you turned the key to "on" the TWICE said "that key is good, ground connector 85 on the relay" Since you had power jumped to 86, that is going to start turning the starter. Unfortunately it probably won't stop until you turn the key off and the TWICE takes the ground away and the car might just start while it is still trying to turn the starter, which would be bad.


You probably killed the relay when you did this. But as far as I can tell looking at the circuit diagram you probably didn't kill the TWICE which expects to see voltage on its connection when the key its turned. If you were to get a momentary switch and plug into 87 and 30 where the relay used to be you can probably use it to turn the starter when the key is on.

The only other thing I'll wonder is if the car started with the starter engaged, you may well have completely smoked the starter. Should be easy enough to tell since your pushbutton starter thing is going to directly turn the starter regardless of whatever else the rest of the starting circuit says. (even the TWICE)


I doubt other than possibly smoking the starter you broke anything else.


Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
My limited experience with the dashboard lighting up like a Christmas tree is the computer is protecting itself and shutting down electrical systems to prevent damage.

You may have to reset your computer (disconnect battery for an hour is my suggestion.)

Also when you are moving the shift lever in between gears in order to get your NSS to work, the key should be in the on position with your foot on the brake.

I've also had luck hitting the remote door opener a few times. That seemed to satisfy a quirky immobilizer.

Lastly, you could have inadvertently shorted your voltage regulator inside the alternator.

Good Luck

Ron
Massauto
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,559 Posts
If putting a momentary switch (or a jumper) between 30 and 87 doesn't turn the starter when the switch is closed then either the starter is completely smoked or if you were lucky the Max fuse under the hood that controls power to the starter relay burnt. IIRC that is Maxi #2 but you should get a meter and check them all (if that one is not shot)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Thank you both for your time, attention and replies.

I have a digital multi-meter, but NO KNOWLEDGE of how to check relays, or fuses.

I purchased a new starter relay in case I fried mine. How do I test old relay w/ multi-meter? Fuses?

Please excuse my ignorance; never have had any mechanical acumen, nor navigational skills, but driving a SAAB through ice and snow...very accomplished (and mostly in the proper direction)!!

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,559 Posts
with your original "jumper" still in does the starter motor turn when you turn the key on?

If not, I suspect that you killed the starter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Tried new Relay w/ jumpers at 87 & 30, turned key to on...no crank, turned key to start...no crank. Noticed slight spark when I combined jumpers from 87 & 30 (even before turning key).

Checked fuse #30, looked good. Visually inspected all Maxi fuses (in battery area); all the "Z-Shaped" internals were intact visually.

Being an eternal optimist, against all odds, might there be further diagnostics I can try before biting the expensive bullet of towing from the boondocks to an honest and competent, but certainly not SAAB-specializing shop?

How user-doable is a starterectomy/replacement? (Not me...I've got a buddy who is blessed with high mechanical aptitude.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,559 Posts
The starter should turn when you jump 30 to 87, key on, key off, doesn't matter. If it doesn't your starter is probably fried.


The starter is reasonably easy to do. you do have to get under the car though.

One bolt comes out from the top, one from the bottom, two wires attached to it (with bolts) and out it comes. It's remarkably small, but I guess I'm showing my age when starter motors weighed a lot.

All in all maybe a 2-hour job start to finish if you have just a small amount of wrenching skills.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
....ughh...I murdered my own starter....poor thing, minding its own business...sure it had NSS syndrome...but now...due to my own ignorance and impetuousness...it's a paperweight, I hate my guts...

Advice Please: To economize, do I look in scrapyard? Rebuilt? What years/models can be used?

Thanks for your replies.

I'm going to my room now...
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top