SaabCentral Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Victor had his timing chain changed and the engine reinstalled last night.

Drives lovely, but the coolant is still mayonnaise so I'm assuming that the head is slightly warped or something so I'm going to redo the HG change, with a skim this time.

As the head bolts are relatively new (as in, maybe 200 or 300 miles on them) am I good to reuse them? Failing that, are they 'long' or 'short' as GSF's website lists both...

Cheers guys
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,081 Posts
StormCrow said:
Drives lovely, but the coolant is still mayonnaise so I'm assuming that the head is slightly warped or something so I'm going to redo the HG change, with a skim this time.
Could the mayo be from some oil left somewhere in the cooling system from before? Rad, heater matrix, pipework etc?

As the head bolts are relatively new (as in, maybe 200 or 300 miles on them) am I good to reuse them?
If they're stretch bolts (torque, pause, degrees is usually a good clue), then I wouldn't. I've seen a professional mechanic mate have to remove a freshly installed (not Saab) head before the car's even touched the floor, let alone been driven, and the new-but-torqued bolts went straight in the bin. No, he didn't charge for the second set, either...

I had to re-replace the head gasket on my old CX, not long after buying it and only about 10,000 after a full engine rebuild, because the muppets'd reused the old bolts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for that - that's pretty much what I figured, I'll order new bolts.

Does anyone know the size of the bolts? GSF are listing the long bolts as 138mm but they don't give a size for the 'short' bolts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,779 Posts
I've always been told to reuse them except for the bolts that look particularly stretched - just because they are stretched already doesn't mean that they can't stretch some more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,081 Posts
TheRedBaron said:
I've always been told to reuse them except for the bolts that look particularly stretched - just because they are stretched already doesn't mean that they can't stretch some more.
A set of bolts for a c900 is £15-20.
How much is doing the head gasket in a month or three going to cost in time and aggro?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,779 Posts
TooMany2cvs said:
A set of bolts for a c900 is £15-20.
How much is doing the head gasket in a month or three going to cost in time and aggro?
But my point was: if the bolts still have usable life, I *personally* see no point in replacing them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,583 Posts
TheRedBaron said:
But my point was: if the bolts still have usable life, I *personally* see no point in replacing them.
Agree, IF there is a reliable/proven method to determine if the bolt is still usable AND if the ramifications of a failed bolt do not result in another head gasket job..
We reused the bolts with the two stroke head jobs..
The term "stretch" did not even exist back then.
The V4 Saab MAY have used "stretch" bolts, these engine were very durable, no re-torquing necessary...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
earthworm said:
Agree, IF there is a reliable/proven method to determine if the bolt is still usable AND if the ramifications of a failed bolt do not result in another head gasket job..
We reused the bolts with the two stroke head jobs..
The term "stretch" did not even exist back then.
The V4 Saab MAY have used "stretch" bolts, these engine were very durable, no re-torquing necessary...
As there is no reliable way of testing the bolts, for the cost of £15 for a new set I might as well chuck a new set in - as you say I don't want to do the the HG for a THIRD time :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,779 Posts
If money isn't an issue and you aren't sure what a bad one looks like, I'd just order a new set.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
TheRedBaron said:
If money isn't an issue and you aren't sure what a bad one looks like, I'd just order a new set.
Money is always an issue, however I'd rather spend £15 on a new set of head bolts than 5 hours removing a snapped one deep inside the block! :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
TooMany2cvs said:
Could the mayo be from some oil left somewhere in the cooling system from before? Rad, heater matrix, pipework etc?
That's what my mechanic thinks, I'm not convinced, as all the fluids were changed LAST NIGHT (putting the engine back in!) and now the coolant is thick and brown once more...

It's possible, yes, but I'm really sure that there couldn't be THAT much in the ancillaries to create this much mayo... could there? :eek:

Anyone got any tips on flushing the whole system - this would be the third time he's had new coolant put in since the HG (first the HG, then the radiator was changed, then the timing chain) - to be honest the pipes still had a coating of mayo inside when we put it back together last night, but still... :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,113 Posts
There's no need to replace head bolts, ever, unless they've stretched beyond spec; this is rare.
See this link for good, accurate information on Torque-to-angle bolts:
http://www.oliver-rods.com/library/libraryindex.html

Throwing away perfectly good parts will not make your gasket replacement more certain.
SAAB would routinely reject any warranty claim that included headbolts. The only way they would pay for bolts is if they had stretched beyond spec. I've torqued, and re-torqued literally thousands of SAAB head bolts (re-torquing used to be part of the 1000 mile service). Of all of those bolts, only one needed to be replaced, and on that one it was obvious; I tightened and tightened but never reached the initial 65 ft/lbs torque.


...As there is no reliable way of testing the bolts...
According to the factory, measuring the bolt length is a reliable way of testing the bolts...but what do they know?

That said, it's your car and your money; do what you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,033 Posts
i take a piece of styrofoam and ram the head bolts into it in order as I remove them so that I get them back in the correct holes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,035 Posts
getting a pressure test will give you your answer, I doubt your head is out of spec, unless you REALLY overheated it. Saab heads are so solid it nuts


GEtting oil out of the cooling system is like trying to drain you blood and refilling it to get rid of a virus, you just can't get it all.

I wonder what running soap in the system would do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,382 Posts
jetman said:
i take a piece of styrofoam and ram the head bolts into it in order as I remove them so that I get them back in the correct holes.
Yeah this is very handy to do. I usually grab an X acto knife and a small box, cut ~16 X's and a line to indicate front of the engine and slip them in.

No reason to replace bolts unless necessary.

I wouldn't write off an HG job until the car has done about 5000 miles and the fluids changed twice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,035 Posts
TooMany2cvs said:
Bubbles...!
would it bubble much tho? It is under pressure. You can control bubbles under pressure.

I just wonder if it would emulsify and clear out all the oil and gunk...?

Then rinse it through with the garden hose for 5 minutes. Refill with water, run it, drain.

Refill with coolant and enjoy....

eh?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,033 Posts
900t said:
Yeah this is very handy to do. I usually grab an X acto knife and a small box, cut ~16 X's and a line to indicate front of the engine and slip them in.

No reason to replace bolts unless necessary.

I wouldn't write off an HG job until the car has done about 5000 miles and the fluids changed twice.
pfft styrofoam is clearly better then cardboard :p
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top