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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I am still contemplating an upgrade on my 2.0lpt '99 and so far I have been doing some very interesting research on this forum.:)

Like most of us, I prefer to have full control of my car and wish to avoid expensive dealers and tuners. I have read that it is simple enough to upgrade the 9-5 with a stage 1, PPC system. This option is rel. (very) cheap if done by yourself!!!!

Question: who has done this upgrade personally and what does the supplier not tell you i.e. which unforeseen problems occur, if any?
 
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Hi Pat, I have moved your post through to the performance section. A number of our members have had the PPC upgrade and all seem to be very pleased. Do a search on PPC upgrade (you probabally already have). The downside of any performance upgrade is that it generates more power and that will eventually highlight any weekness that you may have with your car ie suspension, bushes etc. When considering an upgrade you may like to think about upgrading suspension, springs, brakes etc as these will be under far more pressure as your car will pull and drive faster. :D


Finn :)
 

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The install is very simple but just as time consuming as removing and reinstalling the entire ECU. Personally I have become convinced that ANY stage 1 upgrade (to an Aero at least) is not safe for the car especially where I am as summer temps can top 90 degrees. I don't know how much this applies to your car however since it is a different hardware setup.

If you do choose to go with the PPC, Parts for Saabs will have the device shippied to you about 100 times faster than any tuner can provide a different ECU upgrade. I have the PPC and bought it from PFS. I was very pleased with the service and quick shipping. I just have a slightly conservative view of its safety with the Aero engine I suppose.
 
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XAAMOTTOMAAX said:
Personally I have become convinced that ANY stage 1 upgrade (to an Aero at least) is not safe for the car especially where I am as summer temps can top 90 degrees. I don't know how much this applies to your car however since it is a different hardware setup.
Xaam, what makes you say that you feel a stage 1 is not safe for the aero? :confused:

Finn
 

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Pat the PPC system is very popular and has many fans, I have only read of one installation problem and that was speedily rectified by the supplier.

As yours is a 2.0 SE like mine I can tell you the upgrade is very safe and well within the cars limits, as Finn says though make sure that the general condition and servicing is top notch. ;)
 

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Go for it - you shouldn't have any trouble. Having said that I think it finished off my old and tired turbo! :suprised;
 

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Hi Pat,

I have installed the PPC myself on a 2.0lt (Estate 2001 model). No problems with the install on my car, But the instructions ask you to remove 2 Fuses, and I only had the 1. But it wasn't a issue. Just make sure that the battery is fully charged, (A 20 min drive should do it).

Hate to think what would happen if the car died half way though the install. :nono; The install it self takes about 30 mins.

I have done 2000 miles, and nothing has gone wrong. Also you can "down grade" the car back to the stock if need to, with other ECU upgrades you can't.

Also take the advice of most people here.

1) Make sure your car is all OK, no problems. or check lights.

2) Make sure after a long run (Or any run), keep the engine going for 10-15 seconds to let the Turbo cool down.

3) Do change the oil every 6,000 miles or so, (Some do it every 4,000), and check the PVC hoses.

4) After all that Enjoy :D :D , you will fell like driving a new car.

Hope this helps.:cheesy:

Paul
 

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Finn said:
Xaam, what makes you say that you feel a stage 1 is not safe for the aero? :confused:

Finn
There are two stock hardware pieces that are maxed out at stock Aero levels...the intercooler and the exhaust (downpipe and cat more than the cat-back). When you raise the power levels by such a significant amount, there are some very key problems that are encountered. First, the exhaust temperatures get way too high. This is going to strain the turbo but more importantly there is a bottleneck that will cause exhaust gasses to be left in the cylinder for the next power stroke. The problem with the intercooler is simple...intake temperatures are too high and heat soak sets in very quickly. Basically the entire system (intake, combustion, exhaust) is running way too hot. Trionic 7 has plenty of safeguards in place to cut power when these things happen, but the safeguards can not protect the engine at all times, namely during "rapid load changes". WIS even makes mention that during rapid load changes the MAF readings are not always trustworthy because of the inertia of the large amount of air traveling through the intake system. I have learned first hand exactly what this means. There have been two seperate occasions where I have heard, from the driver's seat with the windows down, my engine knocking severly and both times were under identical circumstances. Each time was on a warm day, after I had been running the car hard for a while and immediately after a WOT run through a gear followed by a hard upshift. Once the upshift was made and the throttle reapplied after the shift, the car knocked severly and then cut boost and retarded timing (cut power for knock protection) for a short time and then returned to normal operation. My theory is that things got way too hot because of the extra power provided by the stage 1 software and when the shift was made, this qualified as a "rapid load change" and the proper a/f ratio could not be calculated. The system applied what it believed to be the proper amount of fuel but due to exhaust recirculation and high intake temperatures, not enough fuel was used and a lean situation and knock were the results. Bad a/f ratio's have been attributed to the specific brand of software but I don't believe this to be true. I believe the problem lies with Trionic 7's inability to calculate the necessary fuel amount properly during a rapid load change and the excessive heat generated by the combination of stage 1 software, a warm day and an extended period of working the car very hard which lead to exhaust recirculation and high intake temperatures. I don't think this would be isolated to any brand of software but is more a problem with raising the power output without improving the hardware of a system that is not designed for such power levels AND a basic flaw of the MAF based design of Trionic 7.

Of course this is all just theory.....
 

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I was absolutely crapping myself when I did the PPC install. I had forgotten to take out the cooling fan fuse. I was sure my battery would die and i would be left without any software to run my car!!!!! Half way through I thought i had to do something about it and I took the fuse out. The fan cut out and I was fine. Only later did I realise that I had my reverse lights on all the way through!!!! Still I was ok.

As has been said if u run out of power god knows what a pickle u would be in!

Regards

The woodmeister

P.S. any queries PM me... ;)
 

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saabnc said:
I should get those first so the PPC can maximize the power and adjust to the hardware, correct? Thanks.
If Trionic can adapt positively which my speedo conforms, adding the hardware you mention later will be fine, it should assist the car in reaching peak performance quicker and more reliably...........................(I'll get me coat before the debate starts again:cheesy: )
 

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Biggest transformation i made was the suspension, no more wallowing through corners with the passengers feeling sick. If you do the PPC first, you should look at suspension and brakes next, (in fact you will realise it as soon as you start to push on with the extra power).:roll: :cheesy:
 

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saabnc said:
I seem to remember a HUGE hardware before software debate from a week or two ago. I plan on getting stage 1 PPC, but also I plan on getting cat back, delivery pipe, and intake pipe. I should get those first so the PPC can maximize the power and adjust to the hardware, correct? Thanks.
The delivery pipe (between throttle and IC) is not needed with power levels below 300 hp. As stage 1 PPC (BSR software) is not meant to be used with intake pipe, this might lead to T7 cutting the power down when it thinks the turbo spools up too fast or turbo rpm is too high. As I've understood the software is the same with stage 1 and stage 2 so putting a catback later will "raise" it effectively to stage 2. On the other hand, the difference that can be had from a catback only is negligible and most likely goes within the tolerance of error. Of course this requires that the stock catback is in good shape.

-zetor
 

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Hi,

The car originally posted was a '99 95lpt 2.0.
The software is not the same between stage 1 and 2 on this particular model. (it is on the 2001 on models). This is due to the car needing larger fuel injectors. The new software is needed to regulate the new fuel injectors. This is effectively a stage 1+ from here you can go fully stage 2 by adding the cat back exhaust - but this offers very little gain. In fact stage 1+ is as good if not better than a stage 2 in 2001 on models.
 

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Kermits 9-5 said:
If you do the PPC first, you should look at suspension and brakes next, (in fact you will realise it as soon as you start to push on with the extra power).:roll: :cheesy:
Well I already have a buy lined up for Anti-Roll bars. But I do realize with power i need to get shocks and springs too.

I guess what you all said is good news, now I can get the PPC first. I go home from school to work in May, so maybe I can have enough money by... late June? Sounds good to me! :cheesy:
 

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Also Pat, one potential drawback of the ppc for your model is the issue of upgrading in the future. As stated you cant go to stage 2 with this software. If you feel you may want to move to a 2 or 3 in the future go the full ECU route, as you can simply send this off for an upgrade - this seems to be difficult/impossible via ppc. Originally I think, the idea was that they would not do a ppc for stage 2 as if you reverted back to 'stock' software via the ppc, the engine ould not run because of the larger fuel injectors - hence the need , as a 'safety' measure to have the full ECU exchange. However, I think this argument (albiet very valid) is blown out of the water by the latest ppc upgrades for the 93ss which are pushing stage 3 and beyond with significant hardware changes such as upgrades turbo and new injectors! Eitherway, a stage 1 is a very very welcome piece of kit, quite frankly, I would have sold my 95 without it! (To by an Aero of course!)
I also think Zetor has made a good point - dont overdo the hardware without the matching software. Putting a 3'' exhaust, larger intake pipe etc etc on a stock or satge 1 will not necessarily increase power, in fact the ECU may not like the match. I think BSR even warn against this and say contact them before doing significant hardware mods with the various stages. Also, hardware is very very expensive. Its great if you current hardware is on the way out, but to replace for example a good exhaust, is really constly and does not represent a good power to pound ratio (in fact more than the cost of a stage 1!).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yep!

paolo said:
Eitherway, a stage 1 is a very very welcome piece of kit, quite frankly, I would have sold my 95 without it! (To by an Aero of course!Have fun.
Yes, you could be very right there! I have considered the option of swapping cars but that is a tricky business. Dutch car dealers are very, very difficult when bargaining. If I was a USA resident I would not hesitate a second because cars are 40-50% cheaper over there!!!!! Seems like everybody over there starts with an Aero before mods.......
 

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Pat said:
Yes, you could be very right there! I have considered the option of swapping cars but that is a tricky business. Dutch car dealers are very, very difficult when bargaining. If I was a USA resident I would not hesitate a second because cars are 40-50% cheaper over there!!!!! Seems like everybody over there starts with an Aero before mods.......
Not I sir!!

I got such a great deal on my 2.3l t 9-5 Im modding the crap out of it!

What is the process of installing the upgrade?

I would be very interested in doing this - but might need to offer free room and food for a weekend to a member near Wisconsin to come help me out with it!

I dont feel like breaking anything and my electronics system is all I feel real comfortable playing with.
 
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