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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have a driver's side front inner CV boot that seems to be loose (may just need to tighten down on the circlip), and a passenger side front outer CV boot that is damaged (has a hole in it that is temporarily fixed with 5 layers of wrapped black electrical tape and 5 layers of 100mph tape). At the minimum I have to tighten the left circlip and replace the right outer CV boot.

When looking at parts pricing, there is a huge discrepancy. Saab is selling the "Drive shaft assembly, Outer universal joint" for $460, TheSaabSite is selling the Axle Assembly for $249, and RockAuto is selling the CV Half Shaft Assembly for just $75. The dealers will tell you that it is 100% OEM, etc. meanwhile the one from RockAuto is EMPI, which the RockAuto website annotates EMPI assemblies feature

- Precision cold rolled spline and threads
- 100% solid precision machined axle bars
- Neoprene CV boots
- Stainless steel boot clamps
- Premium quality Moly grease on all joints
- and a 12 month warranty.

Is it bad to consider just buying two new EMPI assemblies and replacing both sides? Is the difference in price that much to point to EMPI as an "inferior" product versus paying 4 times that much on a new "Saab" part?

As far as the future, the parts guy I talk to tells me that he has seen a vast improvement in responses from overseas. In other words, the parts machine is starting to move again, albeit slowly (he has lost $100k worth of body parts business due to what we have seen in other threads of insurance companies simply totaling out cars rather than deal with paying for 3 or 4 months of a rental price and then the cost to fix the damage).

Saab is no longer an orphan - we know that they have been purchased. In a matter of a short time, we should see the parts flowing again.

In the meantime - advice? Are the EMPI parts worthwhile? The cost justifies the ease of taking the old axles off and installing the new versus the greater amount of time to redo the passenger side outer boot and (if the circlip doesn't tighen) the driver side inner boot.
 

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In a similar situation with my pass side last month I opted for the Empi one as it is new and not rebuilt. Albeit Chinese. No issues. Good build quality. My car and it's parts are like a UN meeting.
 

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you know since SAIC bought the old 9-5 design from GM, it is very plausible that these parts coming out of China are acutally the same quality and spec as the OEM Saab stuff coming out of Europe because the Chinese got a hold of the tooling as well.
 

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If the joint hasn't been exposed to moisture you could always try those repair kits for much less.

Are CV boot tears a major concern about this car?
 

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you know since SAIC bought the old 9-5 design from GM, it is very plausible that these parts coming out of China are acutally the same quality and spec as the OEM Saab stuff coming out of Europe because the Chinese got a hold of the tooling as well.
The chinese will not follow OEM spec unless there is an OEM to contend with. They use cheap steel, cut corners wherever possible so unless someone is willing to stand behind the parts for customer loyalty, you will never see SAAB oem build quality ( I opened a manufacturing faciltiy in Chana a few years ago and they simply do not care, why do you think lead keep getting into kids toys, radiactive metal in some parts, , Its disgraceful really)
 

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oh give me a break dude. we're not talking lead toys here we're talking about mechanical car parts....and I've heard the cheap steel line so long I want to puke. They are making their steel from scrap they get from the US...so if their steel is inferior it means we had it in the first place. The chinese aren't perfect, but I've seen quite a few parts come from there that were just fine. The fact is that the tooling for the 9-5 IS IN China so I would expect the parts coming from there to be pretty much close to the real thing..if not the real thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm with inteller on this one. Yes, some Chinese manufacturing is (or has been) of shady or lesser grade quality in the past. But we will soon see in the future a better quality that is of the same quality we are used to. If you doubt this - recall that people were doubting the Japanese of the same in the mid-80s (look at them now). People were doubting the Koreans in the mid-90s (look at them now). They are using the same tooling. In this case, if the axle assembly is only $75, why not? So far, some are using with no complaints. Only time will tell, eh?
 

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oh give me a break dude. we're not talking lead toys here we're talking about mechanical car parts....and I've heard the cheap steel line so long I want to puke. They are making their steel from scrap they get from the US...so if their steel is inferior it means we had it in the first place. The chinese aren't perfect, but I've seen quite a few parts come from there that were just fine. The fact is that the tooling for the 9-5 IS IN China so I would expect the parts coming from there to be pretty much close to the real thing..if not the real thing.
Ok begin rant on naive american who thinks the world is full of angels and unicorns...

Sure they get the steel from the US, then they resmelt it, add in all the crap they have to make it cheaper and call it SPEC, I know that was my job, head of quality at a giant US manufacturing company

The chinese would make a perfectly good run to secure a bid all within spec and unless you were on them night and day, they would try to slip stuff by you. Its a cultural thing, the japanese and chinese are completely different types of people, just becaue "they all look the same" to you doesn't make all asians the same, pretty bigoted there

Koreans and Japanese love quality and exactness, will even make things TOO perfect, and spend an arm and a leg doing it.

The Chinese on the other hand are Communists and the culture is one of deciet, cheating, cutting corners and lies. Its kind of funny when you live it like I did for 2 years, it gets commical. When the earthquake hit in the Sichuan a few yers ago I was in our offices in Shanghai. The offical word for a week or more was there was no earthquake and the western countries were trying to foster a "great exaggeration". My staff from our supplier there lost entire families ( 200K dead) and their governement was telling them there was no earthquake. When it finally got out in video, they were like oh yeah, my bad. Really??? So the people with dead relatives get to see the government lie and think its ok... ( oh and shoddy workmanship in building caused most of the deaths, so yeah they build themselves [email protected] houses but they make excellent parts for our cars that they could never afford to own?)

Then there was baby formula that did not meet spec so they added a chemical to bring up the appearance of protien on the analyzing equipment. The staff were told how to do this by the governement inpspectors who found they did not make spec! Luckily our ( I worked a an infant nutritional company then) QC test were done independantly. We rejected about 100 tons, kept it from going into the US supply ( we supplied walmart). Well we paid to have it destroyed, and whant happened? It got into local supply.. killed hundreds of babies WTF? And the guys who tipped us??? Were executed as those who allowed it to happen??? And you think they ( the nice citizens of china) are comfortable telling the truth???

Last little story, I worked for a drug company, we had a drug for kidney transplants, sold like hot cakes in china... we come to find out, that the communist leaders were taking money to imprison " enemies of the state" who just happened to match kidney tissue with the wealthy leaders' family members ( state run medicine allowed them to find matches without the person knowing) .. funny coincidence. They were executed and thier kidneys became available... We stopped selling our drugs there but lots of companies looked the other way, and still do... because they make big bucks doing it.

So you think a company that can make big $$ making stuff in China really cares how well its made? Well you beter hope they do, but many don't and the chinese will do what they can to make the deal, take bribes, cut corners beat staff.

That said the people are not bad, but its like this, if you have a parent that does something bad over and over and you see it, ( lying, stealing, smacking people around, racist comments) you think its OK behavior and tend to copy it.

When I tell my staff there I want to know the truth, they have to trust me I won;t hurt them ( I mean really, there the managers hit thier staff for bad news ( i mean physically) , so people hide it all the time, mess ups, cheating on specs whatever)

So import communism all you want becasue its the biggest market in the world and all companies will ship your job there in a second to save a couple bucks and make more profit, all companies are going there and leaving the US manufacturing sector to die because they only care about the costs..

end rant... but more to say ( look any of this up its all in the press - well except the kidney stuff)
 

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That is a pretty good rant and quite accurate in general. Many US companies are returning to the US after experiencing the problems with with what they were given as part of the bid and later what they produced. Actually many use Japanese outlets to manufacture a small run to impress the US company and stick them with junk on the domestic Chinese run. It is a very corrupt culture from the top down. I have never understood this need to make the cheapest thing in the world that US companies seems so committed to. I know Wal Mart has been a huge influence on this but still patriotism should be more than a lapel pin. Most things in this country are ridiculously cheap at the cost of our entire manufacturing base. Guys that ship job overseas just to raise the shareholder value always seemed to me a bit subversive.
 

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Back on topic...all I know is I'm quite particular what I put in my car. The EMPI (yes Chinese made) axles are very good quality imo with new parts not rebuilt and have a very decent warranty. We're not talking Jarvik hearts here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Jssaab - good rant. I don't think there's a soul in the US who doesn't know about the tainted baby formula, or the lead paint in the toys, or the shoddy quality of various products coming from China. I say various because there isn't a store you can go into in most places that doesn't have a product that says "Made in China". It isn't all bad - otherwise none of the products would sell. There are shoes, clothing, you name it - all made at an equal or superior quality that sell under brand names that are recognized in the US and Europe. Even the trinkets in the White House Gift Shop - the very seal of the US or White House - turn it over and it says "Made in China".

We cannot blame it all on the Chinese. We also cannot blame it all on the US consumer - though there is something to be said about expectations of paying the lowest price possible for a quality product. No, the blame is on the efforts of capitalism. It is only because the corporations wish to appease the public and churn out maximum profit at the same time, so they tap the labor base that has both the lowest cost for production and align themselves with the most tax-friendly havens they can. Enter the dragon.

There are several members of the forum who have purchased from RockAuto at $75. So far, no complaints. You would also expect that RockAuto would not wish to deal with a sub-standard supplier. Only time will tell. If it is such that you can get the same axle assembly for $75 and not $460, one of two things will occur - either the price of the aftermarket part will rise (as can be expected), or the price of the OEM part will fall (or both). Isn't the free market a great thing? :)

Oh, and Mike - patriotism is a simple lapel pin in a society that lives and breathes off of being spoon-fed everything to keep them distracted from the truth. If you expected people to only buy American, you must also ask them to pay more. Remember the days when buying a VCR meant spending $500 on a quality product? Now the same is only $100. Same with TVs. Now car parts. Until the people of this country wish to pay more for quality, we will continue to have offshored production to maximize corporate profit. And that isn't going to happen anytime soon, as the complexity involves illegals willing to work for much less to pick strawberries or clean hotels, and involves a system where people don't have to work - they can just claim disability or draw welfare and live at a comfortable state. The list goes on and on. I agree that it is sad that I go to the store and the fruit that I buy (nothing exotic) comes from South America instead of Florida or California. The only thing I know of that is 100% made in the US is the entire components of an MRE.

How do you wish to solve this? We could put a 100% tariff on products made in other countries. That would steer some people back to buying American, but would also affect our own exports and international relations. We could close the borders and kick all illegals out. A very few Americans would replace the labor base and the price of those domestic goods would rise significantly enough for domestic relations to be affected. As the story of the fruit traders goes, we are the ones who cut down all of the apple trees, destroyed the tools, and built a bunch of golf courses in the place of the orchards. There is no going back to growing apples.
 

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Ok begin rant on naive american who thinks the world is full of angles and unicorns...
end rant... but more to say ( look any of this up its all in the press - well except the kidney stuff)

rant rant rant....glug glug glug good koolaid! rumble rabble rumble "dey tuk ur jobs!"

listen man, I like buying American as much as the next guy. There are PLENTY of American companies that provide good products at competitive prices while providing a decent wage for their workers. The problem is not whether we CAN do it, it is a matter of willpower TO do it and not demand ridiculous benefits (aka unions) that for the most part have sunk the auto industry here.

and I hate to break it to you, but the world IS full of angles....dunno about unicorns though.
 

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re

It certainly makes me think,it yoused to be thatI would look for canadian made products instead of American but now I look for american rather than Chinese.I wont feel very secure driving my car at 140 mph with an axel assembly made in china I can tell you that ,my life is worth more than a few hundred bucks and yes I see the irony in that statement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
First off, there are no evil empire types with long fumanchus twirling their mustaches and thinking how they are going to fool over the American public. Capitalism is all about the benjamins. Cutting corners? Yes. However, if someone produces a substandard product they know they won't last long in the market. We're not talking about a $5 trinket here.

They do want to do business and make money, and if they have the tools they can most likely produce a product of similar quality for cheaper. Why do the high quality TVs made in Japan cost less? Exactly.
 

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the problem is when the Chinese part is half the price of OE and the person doesn't mind the hassle if the first one goes bad, the OE is always going to lose. At least TRY to be competitive. I remember several aftermarket joints have left the US market recently and they were blaming Chinese outfits like OBX for their demise. COMPETE!
 

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Made in USA arguments on a Swedish car site...

At one point in time made in Germany (a very long time ago) was considered a bad thing quality wise. Made in Japan was also considered a bad thing. Made in Korea, not even that long ago.

All the above changed over the years as they got better (to the point where they are considered quality leaders), so will made in China. As the thinking of the government and the culture they promote changes so will the quality, give it time.
 

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rant rant rant....glug glug glug good koolaid! rumble rabble rumble "dey tuk ur jobs!"

listen man, I like buying American as much as the next guy. There are PLENTY of American companies that provide good products at competitive prices while providing a decent wage for their workers. The problem is not whether we CAN do it, it is a matter of willpower TO do it and not demand ridiculous benefits (aka unions) that for the most part have sunk the auto industry here.

and I hate to break it to you, but the world IS full of angles....dunno about unicorns though.

Not made in USA, just not made in China, there are no chinese manufactureers that produce quality products ( without oversight) . Now a US (or swedish german whatever company ) with good QC and auditing of work that chinese companies do for them is generally OK

Made in USA arguments on a Swedish car site...

At one point in time made in Germany (a very long time ago) was considered a bad thing quality wise. Made in Japan was also considered a bad thing. Made in Korea, not even that long ago.

All the above changed over the years as they got better (to the point where they are considered quality leaders), so will made in China. As the thinking of the government and the culture they promote changes so will the quality, give it time.
Ageed, once China actually becomes capitalisitc ( remember they are communists) things may improve.

First off, there are no evil empire types with long fumanchus twirling their mustaches and thinking how they are going to fool over the American public. Capitalism is all about the benjamins. Cutting corners? Yes. However, if someone produces a substandard product they know they won't last long in the market. We're not talking about a $5 trinket here.

They do want to do business and make money, and if they have the tools they can most likely produce a product of similar quality for cheaper. Why do the high quality TVs made in Japan cost less? Exactly.
Again the chinese are NOT capitalists, they are communists

And they still are building missles and atomic bombs aimed at the US, support terrorists in Iran, Pakistan and Iraq ( as well as North Korea) imprison people for what they SAY, so no not evil fumanchu ( little racsit comment there) but evil communists who kill innocent college students in peaceful protest.

If you think a government like that is going to care about what they sell to us ( again unless it is made for a vigilent OEM manufacturer)

Read some of the stuff about Apple and the issues they have had manufacturing in Foxcon in China http://www.businessweek.com/article...-follows-apples-expanded-china-factory-audits, it will scare the h3ll out of you...

I suggest any of you who are college students take the oppertunity to travel to and study in China, and see what it feels like to be followed, your internet and email blocked, cameras taken and have your room searched... great country there, it will open your eyes...

Jssaab - good rant. I don't think there's a soul in the US who doesn't know about the tainted baby formula, or the lead paint in the toys, or the shoddy quality of various products coming from China. I say various because there isn't a store you can go into in most places that doesn't have a product that says "Made in China". It isn't all bad - otherwise none of the products would sell. There are shoes, clothing, you name it - all made at an equal or superior quality that sell under brand names that are recognized in the US and Europe. Even the trinkets in the White House Gift Shop - the very seal of the US or White House - turn it over and it says "Made in China".

We cannot blame it all on the Chinese. We also cannot blame it all on the US consumer - though there is something to be said about expectations of paying the lowest price possible for a quality product. No, the blame is on the efforts of capitalism. It is only because the corporations wish to appease the public and churn out maximum profit at the same time, so they tap the labor base that has both the lowest cost for production and align themselves with the most tax-friendly havens they can. Enter the dragon.

There are several members of the forum who have purchased from RockAuto at $75. So far, no complaints. You would also expect that RockAuto would not wish to deal with a sub-standard supplier. Only time will tell. If it is such that you can get the same axle assembly for $75 and not $460, one of two things will occur - either the price of the aftermarket part will rise (as can be expected), or the price of the OEM part will fall (or both). Isn't the free market a great thing? :)
Anythng made in china with outside oversight can be ok, its the stuff that is not that is the issue. And rock auto also sells fake DI casettes ( red painted black and fake made with stolen technology) Untill they get enough back and have enough compalints they will still sell them till they get too many back to get a profit ( and we are a select few that knwo they are bad when we get them)

If we were to compete with the chinese for labor we would need to use prison labor ( like they do) beat employees, lock them up in factory housing ( with suicide nets to stop them from killing themselves) lock them in rooms to work 12 hour days 6 days a week, no breaks for bathrooms. Instead we import these practices and the cheap prices they give us. Working conditions like these started the US labor movement ( read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle) and gave us the Unions you hate. Well china will not get unions ever, the leaders are all locked up as dissidents....

Read a little this is not BS... and I have seen it first ahd and developed procedures to police these practives for various companies.
 

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Not made in USA, just not made in China, there are no chinese manufactureers that produce quality products ( without oversight) . Now a US (or swedish german whatever company ) with good QC and auditing of work that chinese companies do for them is generally OK



Ageed, once China actually becomes capitalisitc ( remember they are communists) things may improve.



Again the chinese are NOT capitalists, they are communists

And they still are building missles and atomic bombs aimed at the US, support terrorists in Iran, Pakistan and Iraq ( as well as North Korea) imprison people for what they SAY, so no not evil fumanchu ( little racsit comment there) but evil communists who kill innocent college students in peaceful protest.

If you think a government like that is going to care about what they sell to us ( again unless it is made for a vigilent OEM manufacturer)

Read some of the stuff about Apple and the issues they have had manufacturing in Foxcon in China http://www.businessweek.com/article...-follows-apples-expanded-china-factory-audits, it will scare the h3ll out of you...

I suggest any of you who are college students take the oppertunity to travel to and study in China, and see what it feels like to be followed, your internet and email blocked, cameras taken and have your room searched... great country there, it will open your eyes...
sounds like your real problem is they are communists, not whether they can compete economically or not. Red scare is over dude.
 
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