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Discussion Starter #1
Still need help!! Back to having evap issues. Trying to narrow it down. Was throwing p0441 and 0445....both evap codes, on my 2008 HOT 95. Idling crappie, hiccups going down the interstate. It’s not the purge valve, swapped it with another and still idling bad. Last week I filled up and it was bad, but this week I filled up and it ran fine after. Cleared the codes, wiggled wires, and got nearly a week of running perfect. Then today p0455 comes back and idling super terrible. Only common denominator seems to be on really hot days. Tac and turbo both fluctuating a lot at idle. No issue while accelerating, but steady driving it has lots of hiccups. Took the MAF apart and tried it, made no difference. ANYONE?! PS....canceled the smoke test appointment cuz it was running so good last week. Should have it run a smoke test even tho it doesn’t seem like a vacuum line off or else it would idle poorly ALL the time and not just some days, correct?
 

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I am having p0455 issues on my 2008 9-5 as well. New gas cap and tested purge valve with 12 volts and it closes with voltage. What I have read is that the ecu only tests the system at 3/4 and 1/4 tank which is why you can go a while in between CEL's. I just had my fuel level sender replaced and believe the gas tank seal may not be seated correctly. I am interested in how the DIC can cause this CEL though?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just swapped the DIC to be positive. No help. Definitely and evap system issue. I just hate to spend $70 to smoke test it and come up with nothing and be back at ground zero
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Back up! So last check was p0455 and p1455. Still evap/emissions. Things I’ve tried: swapping purge valve, swapping DIC, cleaning MAF sensor, unhooking MAF hose and running it, new gas cap, checked as many vacuum lines as I can find, running ethanol free 90 octane. Can’t for the life of me figure out why it’s running funky. Thought it was the “running crappy in hot/humid weather issue, but seems to still be doing it the last few cool mornings. Then it’ll be better for a few days. Any other suggestions?

I feel like it could still be a hundred things. Just still having intermittent power loss, worse at steady speeds/cruise control. Then occasional rough idle. Seemed worse on hot days, but some hot days lately it’s not so bad. Last time I wiggled hoses and cleared the codes, it ran great for a week with seemingly much more power. Then cafes came back and it’s just not right. O2 sensor? CPS? Should I just run the smoke test? Trying not to spend a jillion dollars on a car with 185k on it. Any help is very much appreciated!
 

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Check the hose hidden behind the throttlebody down near the limp home solenoid check to make sure it’s not rotten and possibly even disconnected from the throttlebody.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Check the hose hidden behind the throttlebody down near the limp home solenoid check to make sure it’s not rotten and possibly even disconnected from the throttlebody.
Thank you! I’ll take a look at that tomorrow! Someone suggested the TB, which fits the description, but I can’t imagine I would be throwing the two emissions codes if it was the TB
 

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I'd get a TECH2 scan, it would narrow down the problem.

Failing DIC's don't always throw codes and more often than not misfires only show up on a TECH2.
.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'd get a TECH2 scan, it would narrow down the problem.

Failing DIC's don't always throw codes and more often than not misfires only show up on a TECH2.
.
Oh my bad....also swapped the dic and still ran poorly. It’s nice having a fiancé who has the same car, just a year older.


How old and clogged is the engine air filter?

Doug
Checked the air filter, looks quite clean. The car was definitely very well kept up on.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
My reply is the same as before.......you have a leak somewhere and the only way to narrow it down is to pressurise the system and run the tests...unless you are lucky and find the leak somewhere topside to throttle body.
https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=728258
I think you’re right. Of course, today, it’s run absolutely fine lol. If it continues or gets worse I’m gonna run the smoke test. Gonna keep poking around tho.
 

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did you checked both non return valves in the front, above number 589 here:
https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6412836&postcount=5


they often fail.

you could check the top one:
dismount the vacuum line at the back of the TB
dismount the vacuum line at the valve 321
Try to blow in air from the TB line, this should not be possible, only sucking in air is ok.



you could check the bottom one:
close the line at the TB end, maybe with a screw or let someone put his finger on it.
dismount the common line from the turbovalve and the connection to the cobra, close one side with your finger, try to blow in air, should not be possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
did you checked both non return valves in the front, above number 589 here:
https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6412836&postcount=5


they often fail.

you could check the top one:
dismount the vacuum line at the back of the TB
dismount the vacuum line at the valve 321
Try to blow in air from the TB line, this should not be possible, only sucking in air is ok.



you could check the bottom one:
close the line at the TB end, maybe with a screw or let someone put his finger on it.
dismount the common line from the turbovalve and the connection to the cobra, close one side with your finger, try to blow in air, should not be possible.
I’m not sure I trust myself enough to do that hahaha
 

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P0455

EVAP. Serious Leakage in System.


Fault symptoms



CHECK ENGINE.


Possible smell of petrol.


On-Board Diagnostics

Type of diagnosis:


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Once per driving cycle. Interrupted when fault criteria fulfilled or OK reported. Restarts next driving cycle.


Test 1, Cold start

Enable criteria:


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Coolant temperature at start between 5-40°C. Difference between coolant temperature and intake air temperature less than 5°C.

If the above conditions are not fulfilled, Test 2 (warm start) will start.

Idling speed. Max. one change in status of brake light switch. Purging adaptation higher than -15%. Intake air pressure at least 20 kPa lower than the atmospheric pressure. The vehicle stationary for 5 sec. Fuel volume in tank between 11-54 litres. Battery voltage between 10-16 volts. Tank pressure between -300 to +100 Pa.

The diagnosis will start once the above conditions have been fulfilled for more than 5 seconds. If the diagnosis is interrupted then the speed must exceed 0 on one occasion before it is allowed to restart. The diagnosis is divided into 3 phases, A-C:

Phase A) Evaporation check The shut-off valve is activated (closed) at the same time as possible purging is stopped for 4.5 sec. Tank pressure is observed, falling pressure reveals leaks in purging valve. Rising pressure of more than 3 Pa/s points to fuel evaporation, in these cases Phase A is repeated. If it becomes apparent that the pressure is rising by more than 3 Pa/s the diagnosis is interrupted, vehicle speed is needed during a certain time for it to be restarted. For pressure increases less than 3 Pa/s then Phase A is complete. The diagnosis continues to Phase B (pressure reduction)

Phase B) Pressure reduction Shut-off valve is still closed, the purging valve's pulse ratio is set at 23-24.5% until the tank pressure has reached -600 Pa. This pressure reduction should take no more than max. 30 seconds.

Phase C) Pressure retaining The shut-off valve is still closed, the purging valve is closed. The tank pressure is observed for max. 12 seconds.


Test 2, Warm start

Enable criteria:


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The following conditions should be fulfilled for 5 seconds so that the diagnosis can start: Coolant temperature and intake air temperature at start exceeds +40°C and the difference between coolant temperature and intake air temperature is greater than 5°C.

Idling speed. Max. one change in status of brake light switch. Purging adaptation higher than -6%. Tank pressure between -300 to +100 Pa. Inlet air pressure at least 20 kPa lower than the atmospheric pressure. The vehicle stationary. Fuel volume in tank between 11-54 litres. Battery voltage between 10-16 Volts. Tank pressure sensor diagnosis must have reported OK.

The diagnosis will start once the above conditions have been fulfilled for more than 5 seconds. The diagnosis is interrupted if the purging adaptation exceeds -8%. If the diagnosis is interrupted then the speed must exceed 0 on one occasion before it is allowed to restart. The diagnosis is divided into 3 phases, A-C:

Phase A) Evaporation check The shut-off valve is activated (closed) at the same time as possible purging is stopped for 4.5 sec. Tank pressure is observed, falling pressure reveals leaks in purging valve. Rising pressure of more than 4 Pa/s points to fuel evaporation, in these cases Phase A is repeated. If it becomes apparent that the pressure is rising by more than 4 Pa/s the diagnosis is interrupted, vehicle speed is needed during a certain time for it to be restarted. For pressure increases less than 4 Pa/s then Phase A is complete. The diagnosis continues to Phase B (pressure reduction)

Phase B) Pressure reduction Shut-off valve is still closed, the purging valve's pulse ratio is set at 18% until the tank pressure has reached -600 Pa. This pressure reduction should take no more than max. 30 seconds.

Phase C) Pressure retaining The shut-off valve is still closed, the purging valve is closed. The tank pressure is observed for max. 12 seconds.


Test 3, Filler cap test

Enable criteria:


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Vehicle speed above 40 km/h. Inlet air pressure at least 25 Pa lower than atmospheric pressure. Mass air flow through engine above 10 g/s and that the mass air flow during the diagnosis remains in the interval 85-150% of the value at the start of the diagnosis. The purging valve's pulse width is between 50-65%. Purging adaptation between -10% to -20%. The fuel volume between 11-40 litres. Tank pressure between -300 to 100 Pa or that the test has commenced.

If the conditions are fulfilled, the shut-off valve is closed and the purging is locked at the value it had in the beginning of the diagnosis (50-65%). If the pressure does not fall to -500 Pa within 6 seconds three times while driving then a fault is reported.


Fault criteria:

Test 1 (Cold start)


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Phase A) Evaporation check If the pressure falls by more than 27.5 Pa/s then an internal leak in the purging valve has been detected. If the pressure has risen by more than 3 Pa/s then there is major fuel evaporation, Phase A will then be repeated. If it becomes apparent that the pressure is rising by more than 3 Pa/s then the diagnosis is interrupted. The vehicle must be put in motion before the diagnosis can be restarted. For pressure increases less than 3 Pa/s then the diagnosis continues on to Phase B.

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Phase B) Pressure reduction If the pressure cannot be reduced to -450 Pa within 15 seconds or if the pressure reaches -450 Pa within 15 seconds but not as high as -600 Pa within a further 15 seconds (30 seconds in total) then a major leakage has been found.

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Phase C) Pressure retaining If the pressure rises to -450 Pa within 12 seconds then a small leakage has been found.


Fault criteria:

Test 2 ( Warm start)


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Phase A) Evaporation check If the pressure falls by more than 27.5 Pa/s then an internal leak in the purging valve has been detected. If the pressure has risen by more than 4 Pa/s then there is major fuel evaporation, Phase A will then be repeated. If it becomes apparent that the pressure is rising by more than 4 Pa/s then the diagnosis is interrupted. The vehicle must be put in motion before the diagnosis can be restarted. For pressure increases less than 4 Pa/s then the diagnosis continues on to Phase B.

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Phase B) Pressure reduction If the pressure cannot be reduced to -450 Pa within 15 seconds or if the pressure reaches -450 Pa within 15 seconds but not as high as -600 Pa within a further 15 seconds (30 seconds in total) then a major leakage has been found.

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Phase C) Pressure retaining If the pressure rises to -450 Pa within 12 seconds then a small leakage has been found.


Generation of diagnostic trouble codes:


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Diagnostic trouble codes are generated when the above fault criteria are fulfilled and the dependents are OK.

In addition for Test 2 (Warm start) the intake air temperature has not been below 5°C.

P0441, P1441 are generated if faults are reported during Phase A

P0455, P1455 are generated if faults are reported during Phase B

P0442, P1442 are generated if faults are reported during Phase C


Fault criteria:

Test 3 (Filler cap test)


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If faults are reported and the engine's starting temperature is between 5-40°C diagnostic trouble codes P0455 or P1455 are generated.


Dependents:


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P0444, P0445, P0501, P0502, P0506, P0507, P1444, P1445, P1576, P1577 and (vehicles equipped with TCS) P1925.


OK report:


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If all conditions are fulfilled and the diagnoses have been carried out without finding any faults then OK is reported.

Note
Diagnostic trouble codes P0442, P0455, P1442 and P1455 are cleared directly after the diagnosis has reported OK.



Fault handling:


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Type III.


Diagnostic help

Fault diagnosis concerns a leak.

Functions in the diagnostic tool related to the fault:



Diagnostic status for the diagnosis.


Activate EVAP diagnosis.


For more information, see Fault tracing strategy for electronic systems .

Note
During the final check of a rectified fault, the diagnostic tool activation command must be used so that Test 1 (cold start) is initiated irrespective of starting temperature.


(From WIS)

On newer 9-5's we replace a lot of purge valves for sticking closed. Put 12v to the valve, on and off, and see if it gets stuck in a certain direction (if you don't have a vacuum tool then suck / blow into it).
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #19
On newer 9-5's we replace a lot of purge valves for sticking closed. Put 12v to the valve, on and off, and see if it gets stuck in a certain direction (if you don't have a vacuum tool then suck / blow into it).
Tom

that is the relevant part for you<img src="http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
Haha! Nope already checked the purge valve. It’s clicking hooked up to 12 volts and didn’t seem to run any better when I swapped with another one. Am I supposed to see anything move looking into the open port when it clicks? I imagined you’d see that metal valve actually open and close
 

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I believe I fixed the P0455 CEL on my 2008 9-5. I replaced the gas cap and tested the purge valve with 12 volts and it was fine. Still had the code and bad idling, especially on hot days, just like the original poster. I also started to get a coolant leak at the firewall. I replaced the coolant bypass valve, and in doing so either noticed, or broke, the tee that connects to the red/white check valve. I am not sure which fixed it, but after replacing the tee and the coolant bypass valve the CEL went off immediately after starting the engine, and there are no stored codes now and my gas mileage is back to the 20's after dropping to 16mpg. It's very strange since neither of those areas are related to the EVAP system, but maybe a vacuum leak elsewhere can trigger that CEL? The other possibility is there are two major wire connectors you have to disconnect to get to the bypass valve and maybe that resets power to the ECU, not sure. Others may know better than me. I'll reply again if mine comes back.
 
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