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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i was lookin at possibly buying the delivery pipe and im wondering if the bigger piping would make me lose some spool up and if it would actually be worth it? would i see any gains from it? would i notice any loss from it? give your opinions and info.
--by the way. im stage 5 dynoed 279whp 311 wtrq lb ft hopin to see a bit more next dyno in maybe a month or so
 

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I would put that money on something else instead.
The stock Trionic5 delivery pipe will flow more then enough air for around 450bhp so you should be safe for quite a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
pade900 said:
I would put that money on something else instead.
The stock Trionic5 delivery pipe will flow more then enough air for around 450bhp so you should be safe for quite a while.
thats what i was thinking. thanks. just was on their site and it looks so perty and tempting so figured id ask. but i thought the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
9-3sleeper said:
What else do you have on the car?
t25/28 hybrid turbo
fmic
3 inch turbo back exhaust
50 lb injectors
stage 5 jsp tune

since i went with the small turbo for quick spooling drivability i think the bigger pipe might sacrifice that and since its still a small turbo it might not benefit to have that larger pipe so im not sure.
 

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Yeah, granted the t7s and the t5s are whole different animals, but when I spoke with Nick T, he told me that I really had no need for the delivery pipe, and that my money could be spent better elsewhere.

And with a realitvely small turbo, it shouldn't be any sort of issue, it's really not as important for the pressure side of the intake to be as high flowing as the non pressure side anyways ya know.

Although I can definatly feel your pain when it comes to the pretty new pipe issue, I love pretty new pipes.:cheesy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
9-3sleeper said:
Although I can definatly feel your pain when it comes to the pretty new pipe issue, I love pretty new pipes.:cheesy:
yeah i might just have to spend some time cleanin up the stocker for a while. i need to go rub my pipe...:lol:
 

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Although abbott racing claims a 10bhp gain with larger 2.5" delivery pipe, what I noticed that makes the larger delivery pipe a winner in my book is that is smoothed out the transition between no boost and boost and this helps save the tranny in my opinion. It was not that wait, wait, wait, bam, all the torque and power at once. The power came on smoother and more consistantly and the throttle response seemed better too.

Even if it does not give much more hp, the smooth transistion of the larger delivery pipe makes it worthwhile in my opinion. I have one on each of my 3 saabs, 2 9000's and one ng900... It had the same effect on all 3 of them.

John
 

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John Z Williams said:
Although abbott racing claims a 10bhp gain with larger 2.5" delivery pipe, what I noticed that makes the larger delivery pipe a winner in my book is that is smoothed out the transition between no boost and boost and this helps save the tranny in my opinion. It was not that wait, wait, wait, bam, all the torque and power at once. The power came on smoother and more consistantly and the throttle response seemed better too.

Even if it does not give much more hp, the smooth transistion of the larger delivery pipe makes it worthwhile in my opinion. I have one on each of my 3 saabs, 2 9000's and one ng900... It had the same effect on all 3 of them.

John
Yeah that would be nice, I don't think Nick has one for the T7s though.
 

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Much Smooother Acceleration Agreed!

John Z Williams said:
Although abbott racing claims a 10bhp gain with larger 2.5" delivery pipe, what I noticed that makes the larger delivery pipe a winner in my book is that is smoothed out the transition between no boost and boost and this helps save the tranny in my opinion. It was not that wait, wait, wait, bam, all the torque and power at once. The power came on smoother and more consistantly and the throttle response seemed better too.

Even if it does not give much more hp, the smooth transistion of the larger delivery pipe makes it worthwhile in my opinion. I have one on each of my 3 saabs, 2 9000's and one ng900... It had the same effect on all 3 of them.

John
I have one on my 1999 9.3 SE and it may have lost some spool up but the power comes on much smoother.:cool: The car is much more enjoyable to drive this way. While boost is a alot of fun I do believe you actually gain some horsepower and lose some tourque. I read one post that someone tested on a dyno after install and lost 22 ft lbs of torque but gained 7 whp. And to me losing torque is not a bad thing if you have to much in the first place and tourque steer will be reduced. It depends on what you are looking for. If you have alot of upgrades I would go for it, especially approaching the 300 hp range. If you just want horsepower and tourque than your money would most likely be better spent in other areas. But if your looking for smoother power transition and a really nice look under the hood than why not. :cheesy:
 

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Saab93t5 said:
I have one on my 1999 9.3 SE and it may have lost some spool up but the power comes on much smoother.:cool: The car is much more enjoyable to drive this way. While boost is a alot of fun I do believe you actually gain some horsepower and lose some tourque. I read one post that someone tested on a dyno after install and lost 22 ft lbs of torque but gained 7 whp. And to me losing torque is not a bad thing if you have to much in the first place and tourque steer will be reduced. It depends on what you are looking for. If you have alot of upgrades I would go for it, especially approaching the 300 hp range. If you just want horsepower and tourque than your money would most likely be better spent in other areas. But if your looking for smoother power transition and a really nice look under the hood than why not. :cheesy:
I agree, I felt like I lost a little torque and gained a few ponies... This helps keep the tranny intact and like you said, makes the car more enjoyable to drive in my opinion.
 

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Like stated before in a similar tread the change in character might as well be do to the fact that when you swap the pipe you also affect the boost controller working environment.

In my car I have not experienced a wait wait wait bam issue, not with the T7 plastic pipe nor with the current T5 pipe. If anybody wishes too see an acceleration curve, I am more than happy to post a few of them out ;)
 

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Maybe its different in a t7 car, but there is no question it smooths out the power and I did test mine on a dyno and the first one showed a increase in hp at 7whp and a loss of torque by about -22 ft-lbs....:p

I have noticed this on all 3 of my saab's....

John
 

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John Z Williams said:
Maybe its different in a t7 car, but there is no question it smooths out the power and I did test mine on a dyno and the first one showed a increase in hp at 7whp and a loss of torque by about -22 ft-lbs....:p

I have noticed this on all 3 of my saab's....

John
Nope my car is no longer T7 remember, its a speed density system just like the T5 and most of the current HW is from T5 (head, TB, intake manifold, delivery pipe/TB connection piece). Bottom is T7.

After you have played around with mapping the car and have not gotten the wait wait, boom out then you can state that pipe ALONE made the difference. This of course assumes that who ever is mapping the car is skillfull enough.
 

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Well another point is that I only got that wait, wait, bam on the smaller t25 turbo, the t28 was better and the gt3071 was better yet. When I made the switch it was with stock t25 turbo and this is where the change was felt with no sw changes. It also made a difference in my aero with stock tdo4.

Its a larger volume to fill so I feel it takes just a little longer to fill that volume and makes it spool-up maybe 200-300rpm later, but when it does come on its smoother and less abrupt.

Like I said, I had mine on the dyno and it did show a loss in torque and a slight gain in hp.... Then I put water/methonal on it and got the 39wtrq gain out of it and maybe a 5bhp loss again.... So it was a wash in the end, but with stock t25 and tdo4, no doubt in my mind it smooths out the power and its easier on the tranny...

John
 

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John Z Williams said:
Maybe its different in a t7 car, but there is no question it smooths out the power and I did test mine on a dyno and the first one showed a increase in hp at 7whp and a loss of torque by about -22 ft-lbs....:p

I have noticed this on all 3 of my saab's....

John

Airflow restrictions almost always increase torque.. although, they're usually with exhaust restrictions.

When I put my 3" cat-less exhaust on , I went up an un-specified amount of HP due to different dyno(dynojet to mustang;guessing ~25) but lost nearly 30 lb/ft of torque.

I'll have to see which sheets I have @ home, but I have a feeling I've lost the original pull sheet.

Stromer has an interesting Dyno shart. he makes something like 300WHP, but something gross like 380lb/ft. My guess is stock exhaust cam, small hot-side, or 2.5" SS cat-back are making his numbers pretty ugly.

I do agree with whoever says the stock IC pipe is enough. DSM guys(what I'm more familiar with) don't go 2.5" IC pipes until >350WHP. There's just no need. more important is smooth flow/bends/transitions.

As a last question... did you also install the upgraded bend when you did, John? or JUST the pipe? I'm willing to be that The up-rated 90-degree would show more-significant changes/improvements than just the pipe.
 

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John Z Williams said:
, no doubt in my mind it smooths out the power and its easier on the tranny...

John
but all of this you can do with proper mapping of the car, i.e "delay" boost, change the ramp what boost builds up etc etc + behaviour can be altered with fueling/ timing.

Just give it a try, a basid test would be to connect the C hose directly to W and give it a go, its smooth right? Then start to increse the baseboost with the hlep of shortening the shaft/ stiffer springs and repeat tests, it will be smooth no matter what you do, if you dont have timing/fuel maps messed up. Once you're satified that the go is "smooth" reagardless of baseboost then plug the boost contreller back and if the "smoothness" goes away it is the boost control which is the cause not the HW.
 
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