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Discussion Starter #1
If it is true that there is to be a SAAB Sonnett concept car, I'd like to make some suggestions:

1. Let the SAAB Trollhattan design team design it from scratch. Use the Kappa platform if necessary, but leave everything else to the Trollhattan team. NO REBADGES. If not enough engineers in Trollhattan team, I'm sure some can be hired from the SAAB Gripen aircraft group. They're probably looking for work.

2. Use the original 1956 SAAB Super Sport (Sonnett) prototype as a heavy design influence. Make the new car the same size, or close to it. Although the original Sonnett was built on a standard SAAB 93 platform, I don't suggest basing the new concept on the 9-3's Epsilon platform.



3. The 1956 SAAB Super Sport weighed 1760 lbs due to its aluminum construction. Its highly-tuned SAAB 93 two-stroke 55 bhp engine propelled it to an astounding 0 to 60 time of only 12 seconds! Here are my engine choices for the new Sonnett:
3a. Standard Inline-4 SAAB 2.0T engine
3b. New turbocharged V6 engine slated for the '06 9-3 Aero but add water injection
3c. SAAB supercharged Inline-5 engine with Saab Variable Compression and Saab Combustion Control. Small, light car with this engine would be an fuel-economical rocket (225 bhp)!

4. Leather SAAB Aero seats with active whiplash protection, heaters, and chillers (use Peltier system for cooling). Night vision/Head-up-display out of Cadillac division would evoke SAAB's aerospace roots.

5. Ginormous wheels with rims that look like turbine fans to further evoke SAAB's aerospace roots

6. Pop-up rollbars from the 9-3 'Vert for added safety (even though it's a roadster, SAAB's all about safety).

7. Outsource audio system. SAAB not traditionally known for their audio. Have BOSE or some other specialists design it. First roadster with surround sound and THX certification?

8. Bluish interior lighting out of the 9-X concept, along with keyless system. Like the 9-X concept, the driver should not require anything other than to have some sort of "key" on him/her so that when the driver gets close the the car the doors unlock and the interior lighting comes on. The motorized seats should move to that driver's position as well as the pedals and steering column should telescope out to that drivers' preferences. All radio station presets should then switch to that drivers' preferences. If that drivers' significant other should move to the drivers' side everything including radio presets should adjust to him/her. NO IGNITION SWITCH. Just a glowing start button with the SAAB logo emblazoned on it. It shouldn't need to read "START". The owner would know what that button does without a label.

9. MANUAL 6-speed transmission

I could go on and on, but I'm sure most anyone hasn't even gotten to this point. I would LOVE to buy a SAAB Sonnett. In fact, I'm currently seriously considering a Pontiac Solstice when the turbo version comes out or a Saturn Sky
 

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if gm would give saab even half of what's on that list, gm would have a _very_ cool car to add to its product lineup.
 

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1985 Gripen said:
If it is true that there is to be a SAAB Sonnett concept car, I'd like to make some suggestions:

1. Let the SAAB Trollhattan design team design it from scratch. Use the Kappa platform if necessary, but leave everything else to the Trollhattan team. NO REBADGES. If not enough engineers in Trollhattan team, I'm sure some can be hired from the SAAB Gripen aircraft group. They're probably looking for work.

2. Use the original 1956 SAAB Super Sport (Sonnett) prototype as a heavy design influence. Make the new car the same size, or close to it. Although the original Sonnett was built on a standard SAAB 93 platform, I don't suggest basing the new concept on the 9-3's Epsilon platform.



3. The 1956 SAAB Super Sport weighed 1760 lbs due to its aluminum construction. Its highly-tuned SAAB 93 two-stroke 55 bhp engine propelled it to an astounding 0 to 60 time of only 12 seconds! Here are my engine choices for the new Sonnett:
3a. Standard Inline-4 SAAB 2.0T engine
3b. New turbocharged V6 engine slated for the '06 9-3 Aero but add water injection
3c. SAAB supercharged Inline-5 engine with Saab Variable Compression and Saab Combustion Control. Small, light car with this engine would be an fuel-economical rocket (225 bhp)!

4. Leather SAAB Aero seats with active whiplash protection, heaters, and chillers (use Peltier system for cooling). Night vision/Head-up-display out of Cadillac division would evoke SAAB's aerospace roots.

5. Ginormous wheels with rims that look like turbine fans to further evoke SAAB's aerospace roots

6. Pop-up rollbars from the 9-3 'Vert for added safety (even though it's a roadster, SAAB's all about safety).

7. Outsource audio system. SAAB not traditionally known for their audio. Have BOSE or some other specialists design it. First roadster with surround sound and THX certification?

8. Bluish interior lighting out of the 9-X concept, along with keyless system. Like the 9-X concept, the driver should not require anything other than to have some sort of "key" on him/her so that when the driver gets close the the car the doors unlock and the interior lighting comes on. The motorized seats should move to that driver's position as well as the pedals and steering column should telescope out to that drivers' preferences. All radio station presets should then switch to that drivers' preferences. If that drivers' significant other should move to the drivers' side everything including radio presets should adjust to him/her. NO IGNITION SWITCH. Just a glowing start button with the SAAB logo emblazoned on it. It shouldn't need to read "START". The owner would know what that button does without a label.

9. MANUAL 6-speed transmission

I could go on and on, but I'm sure most anyone hasn't even gotten to this point. I would LOVE to buy a SAAB Sonnett. In fact, I'm currently seriously considering a Pontiac Solstice when the turbo version comes out or a Saturn Sky
i find it funny that you recommend BLOSE for an audio system. if anyone should design it it should be pioneer, or an actual real audio company.

and #8 is half impossible to do. in terms of which driver is in the drivers seat, what are they gunna car multiple keys around at all times?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Sorry you don't approve

nourdmrolnmt1 said:
i find it funny that you recommend BLOSE for an audio system. if anyone should design it it should be pioneer, or an actual real audio company.

and #8 is half impossible to do. in terms of which driver is in the drivers seat, what are they gunna car multiple keys around at all times?
Sorry that BOSE isn't your first choice in audio. I did qualify the statement by adding "or some other specialists" as admittedly I'm not that knowledgeable about audio. I do know that SAAB's audio blows though. I spoke with a 2004 9-3 owner yesterday who has the premium audio system option and even that is sub-standard.

Regarding #8, I don't quite understand what you're confused about. Yes, each individual driver would have their own key and that's how the car can tell who the driver is. Blaunpunkt used to have (they still might) a system where you insert a smartcard into the head unit. This prevents use if the unit is stolen and also customizes the stereo presets. Each driver has a different smartcard. My key idea is the same thing. I mean, already there are memory presets in the driver's seat. Why couldn't this be linked to an individual through the key?
 

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1985 Gripen said:
Sorry that BOSE isn't your first choice in audio. I did qualify the statement by adding "or some other specialists" as admittedly I'm not that knowledgeable about audio. I do know that SAAB's audio blows though. I spoke with a 2004 9-3 owner yesterday who has the premium audio system option and even that is sub-standard.

Regarding #8, I don't quite understand what you're confused about. Yes, each individual driver would have their own key and that's how the car can tell who the driver is. Blaunpunkt used to have (they still might) a system where you insert a smartcard into the head unit. This prevents use if the unit is stolen and also customizes the stereo presets. Each driver has a different smartcard. My key idea is the same thing. I mean, already there are memory presets in the driver's seat. Why couldn't this be linked to an individual through the key?
i was just saying about your if they switch drivers. is each person in the vehicle going to have to carry their own key at all times in order to switch? i mean isnt a single button easy enough?

i will have to say that i may be a slight audiophile, but the premium system in my 99 9-5 is much much better than any other sound system i have heard, staging is a little bit off, but its very good. a little bright(to much highs) and the bass seems intermittent, but thats all i have to say, very accurate it seems.
 

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nourdmrolnmt1 said:
i will have to say that i may be a slight audiophile, but the premium system in my 99 9-5 is much much better than any other sound system i have heard, staging is a little bit off, but its very good. a little bright(to much highs) and the bass seems intermittent, but thats all i have to say, very accurate it seems.
I'm not an audiophile, just a guy with ears, but the Harmon-Kardon premium audio in my 9-5 Aero sounds really damn good.
 

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I'm curious what your home reference system is ?


nourdmrolnmt1 said:
i will have to say that i may be a slight audiophile, but the premium system in my 99 9-5 is much much better than any other sound system i have heard, staging is a little bit off, but its very good. a little bright(to much highs) and the bass seems intermittent, but thats all i have to say, very accurate it seems.
 

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1985 Gripen said:
3. The 1956 SAAB Super Sport weighed 1760 lbs due to its aluminum construction. Its highly-tuned SAAB 93 two-stroke 55 bhp engine propelled it to an astounding 0 to 60 time of only 12 seconds! Here are my engine choices for the new Sonnett:
3a. Standard Inline-4 SAAB 2.0T engine
3b. New turbocharged V6 engine slated for the '06 9-3 Aero but add water injection
3c. SAAB supercharged Inline-5 engine with Saab Variable Compression and Saab Combustion Control. Small, light car with this engine would be an fuel-economical rocket (225 bhp)!
Water injection? On a production vehicle? Water injection is not a viable mass market option for a number of reasons, including longevity and the need for a knowledgable driver to use such a system. Water injection is best left to the boy-racer and ricer types in my opinion.

The SAAB variable combustion control engine was an experimental design. I understand that engine has many remaining developmental problems that would prevent its use in a modern vehicle. Why do you suggest an inline-5 over other configurations?

1985 Gripen said:
4. Leather SAAB Aero seats with active whiplash protection, heaters, and chillers (use Peltier system for cooling). Night vision/Head-up-display out of Cadillac division would evoke SAAB's aerospace roots.
These aren't some bad suggestions. I agree except the chilled seats may be a bit tough because of longevity/durability issues. The vented seats, a la 9-5, may be a nice addition however.

1985 Gripen said:
5. Ginormous wheels with rims that look like turbine fans to further evoke SAAB's aerospace roots
Not sure how "ginormous" you are thinking. However, the use of dub-size wheels are not practical for many people. Remember the vehicle must sell to a critical mass of customers. Adding Fast-and-Furious-style wheels may make the vehicle appeal only to a limited audience. Perhaps accessory wheels in larger sizes may make the vehicle have broader appeal.

1985 Gripen said:
7. Outsource audio system. SAAB not traditionally known for their audio. Have BOSE or some other specialists design it. First roadster with surround sound and THX certification?
Surround sound and THX might be tough for a convertible. Roadsters generally are tight on space and thus it would be tough to place the multiple speakers necessary for the system. Also, convertibles offer less than stellar acoustical environments for truly spectacular sound.
 

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1985 Gripen said:
Sorry that BOSE isn't your first choice in audio. I did qualify the statement by adding "or some other specialists" as admittedly I'm not that knowledgeable about audio. I do know that SAAB's audio blows though. I spoke with a 2004 9-3 owner yesterday who has the premium audio system option and even that is sub-standard.
Maybe in the 93... my 95 has an excellent sound system. And I had a 93 BEFORE I bought the 95 so I feel qualified to comment. :)
 

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SaabKen said:
I'm curious what your home reference system is ?
i have a marantz 1120 from the late 70's w/ sennheiser HD280 pro cans attatched to it, and a custom speaker setup which consist of a Vifa 6.5" mid, and a Northcreek D-25 tweeter. the X-over was designed for in car use (read, off axis response) and thus not perfect for in home, but it puts out sound.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Rebuttal to your rebuttal

Rob in Atlanta said:
Water injection? On a production vehicle? Water injection is not a viable mass market option for a number of reasons, including longevity and the need for a knowledgable driver to use such a system. Water injection is best left to the boy-racer and ricer types in my opinion.
I understand from a knowledgeable friend that water injection was available as a factory option on early C900 cars. I figured if it was a factory-supported option it could be put on a CONCEPT CAR. I'm particularly interested personally in water injection as I live in SoCal where much of the year my car's sucking-in air that's over 100 degrees F!

Rob in Atlanta said:
The SAAB variable combustion control engine was an experimental design. I understand that engine has many remaining developmental problems that would prevent its use in a modern vehicle. Why do you suggest an inline-5 over other configurations?
I have not heard of any of the developmental problems except for the biggest one being GM shelved it. I'm suggesting it for the CONCEPT CAR because it would showcase some of SAAB's homegrown engineering. The reason I suggest the supercharged inline-5 is because that's what the prototype SVC engine was.

Rob in Atlanta said:
These aren't some bad suggestions. I agree except the chilled seats may be a bit tough because of longevity/durability issues. The vented seats, a la 9-5, may be a nice addition however.
I do like the idea of the 9-5's ventilated seats and have read that they really do work. I wish that option were extended to the 9-3 models. Again, this is a proposed CONCEPT CAR so I was going all-out. I don't think any production car to date has gone to a chilled seat cooling system. I know they're available aftermarket though. If circulating cabin air to your back like the 9-5 is good, how great would it be if it were chilled air? Especially if you're driving in hot weather with the top down you don't want ambient air circulated to your back. Those portable car refrigerators work on the same concept (Peltier) so adapting them to seats shouldn't be that hard. If you were a SAAB owner in say Phoenix or North Africa I'm sure you'd LOVE these seats!

Rob in Atlanta said:
Not sure how "ginormous" you are thinking. However, the use of dub-size wheels are not practical for many people. Remember the vehicle must sell to a critical mass of customers. Adding Fast-and-Furious-style wheels may make the vehicle appeal only to a limited audience. Perhaps accessory wheels in larger sizes may make the vehicle have broader appeal.
Again, two words: CONCEPT CAR. Besides, they look really good and have been used on other SAAB concept cars like the 9-X. The 9-3X had 20" wheels.

Rob in Atlanta said:
Surround sound and THX might be tough for a convertible. Roadsters generally are tight on space and thus it would be tough to place the multiple speakers necessary for the system. Also, convertibles offer less than stellar acoustical environments for truly spectacular sound.
I know it, but I'm just posting some dream ideas. My first car was a 1976 FIAT 124 Sport Spider 1600 convertable. Its stock Blaupunkt AM/FM cassette stereo had to practically be cranked-up to 11 for it to even be heard above the freeway and wind noise. When you're in a convertable with the top down you deserve some theme music, darnit! And I'm not talking about anything that can be found on the Miami Vice soundtrack!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You're right

candiazoo said:
Maybe in the 93... my 95 has an excellent sound system. And I had a 93 BEFORE I bought the 95 so I feel qualified to comment. :)
I should have qualified that blanket statement. I have never heard the audio from a 9-5. I guess their Harmon-Kardon system is pretty decent then, eh?

But I have experienced the pathetic stock audio from the following SAAB models:

1978 SAAB 99
1981 SAAB 900
1985 SAAB 900
2001 SAAB 9-3

And I heard that the '04 9-3 "upgraded" system isn't all that great either. Come on, SAAB! It's not that difficult.

I'm not an audiophile like I mentioned earlier, but I rented a Ford Escape (base model) on a recent business trip and its stock audio blew my wife's SAAB's '01 9-3) away! I've also rented Nissan Altimas and Maximas and their audio is noticably better. I've also heard the Toyota Avalon has decent audio. These aren't "near-luxury" cars either!
 

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I consider myself an entry-level (gear-wise) home audiophile. And I find my car's stock Clarion CD/cassette/tuner head unit with EQ, 6-disc trunk changer and 150W amp to be quite good. It has the stock 8-driver setup (separate tweeter/mid-bass).



1985 Gripen said:
I should have qualified that blanket statement. I have never heard the audio from a 9-5. I guess their Harmon-Kardon system is pretty decent then, eh?

But I have experienced the pathetic stock audio from the following SAAB models:

1978 SAAB 99
1981 SAAB 900
1985 SAAB 900
2001 SAAB 9-3

And I heard that the '04 9-3 "upgraded" system isn't all that great either. Come on, SAAB! It's not that difficult.

I'm not an audiophile like I mentioned earlier, but I rented a Ford Escape (base model) on a recent business trip and its stock audio blew my wife's SAAB's '01 9-3) away! I've also rented Nissan Altimas and Maximas and their audio is noticably better. I've also heard the Toyota Avalon has decent audio. These aren't "near-luxury" cars either!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Maybe it's only the C900/NG900/9-3 range

SaabKen said:
I consider myself an entry-level (gear-wise) home audiophile. And I find my car's stock Clarion CD/cassette/tuner head unit with EQ, 6-disc trunk changer and 150W amp to be quite good. It has the stock 8-driver setup (separate tweeter/mid-bass).
I see from your profile you have a 9000. Maybe this audio "problem" is only with the 900/9-3 series.

From the start, in the 900 SAAB used a weird size rear speaker system (5"?) that it's hard to find aftermarket speakers for. I ended up cutting holes in the rear deck of my '85 900 Turbo 3-door and dropping in a pair of Pioneer 6 x 9 3-way 120W speakers. The little tweeters in the dash are unchanged. Maybe it's the fact that the aftermarket Blaupunkt head unit I'm using doesn't put-out enough power to take advantage of them (I don't have an amp), but the audio sounds really tinny. I don't want to go out and add door speakers, get a new head unit, add an amp, etc. to get a decent-sounding stereo. It should have been decent STOCK.

From what I've heard of the new 9-3 SAAB still hasn't addressed the poor audio quality in that model. They do have an upgrade you can buy as an option, but I'm hearing even that one isn't as good as it should be. By the mere fact that they offer the upgrade it makes me think they know the stock system is inadequate.
 
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