[Davsaab9-506]

Ok the crankcase breather pipe NRV broke and threw a P1181 code. I have made a temporary patch repair while I wait for a new part. I will use the old one to effect a repair using a replacement NRV with patch tubing as per Doug's suggestions ready for the next time it breaks.

But I have noticed the car was throwing more oil and as I have effected all normal leaks (Oil pressure sensor, oil tensioner washer and O ring, and Oil pump larger O ring and crankshaft oil seal) I am still seeing oil coming from under/around the timing chain tensioner. The saab specialist say it is a notorious fault, at the point where the head gasket seals the open space where the timing chain runs at the rear of the engine directly under the timing chain tensioner. He says it requires a new head gasket.

But I am doubting that and would like advice from you guys.

1) As the timing chain cover needs to mate/make that seal maybe it is easier and less risky to remove and re-seal that area, by way of the timing chain cover. Leaving the head alone.

My only worry is that the oil could be leaking from the upper seal and head not the lower seal where the timing chain cover mates.

2) also it has been suggested that all you need to do is (A) re-tighten the timing cover bolts both those that pull the cover to the block and the 2 that pull the cover to the head and (B) re-tighten the head bolt making sure that that end is at full torque. Not sure why this would make much difference to the joint between head/head-gasket and timing chain cover.

Any suggestions or advice??

 

[summerof96]

Pulling the timing cover without pulling the head first will present challenges. This article explains how to do it.
http://www.serioussaab.co.uk/Procs_pages/proc_pages/p_chain.html

When I rebuilt mine, I put some anaerobic sealant around the the timing chain opening on the bottom of the head and top of block/timing cover, sandwiching the head gasket between the two. No leaks, so far...

 

[Davsaab9-506]

yes I am fearing I have a big job on my hands. thanks for the advice and the article it is very comprehensive. much appreciated

 

[Jssaab]

Sometimes a slack chain will grind through the timing cover. Look for a hole. You will need a new chain or tensioners or both anyway

 

[lukbet]

I did this job some time ago. IT was succesfull. Problem was that head gasket has lost its integrity in the Area of timing chain cover and head connection. Head gasket is two steel plates covered by some sealant product. Im my cases sealant was destroyed completly. I put silicone sealant on each connection surface. Remamber to degrease correctly. To seal timing chain i used loctite 518 as rquired by Saab . Head gasket connection i used erling

Wysłane z mojego Redmi 4X przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

[Davsaab9-506]

thanks will check but Im not getting any noise from chain so hoping it is not this.

 

[Davsaab9-506]

I did this job some time ago. IT was succesfull. Problem was that head gasket has lost its integrity in the Area of timing chain cover and head connection. Head gasket is two steel plates covered by some sealant product. Im my cases sealant was destroyed completly. I put silicone sealant on each connection surface. Remamber to degrease correctly. To seal timing chain i used loctite 518 as rquired by Saab . Head gasket connection i used erling

Wysłane z mojego Redmi 4X przy użyciu Tapatalka

thanks this is seeming to be a job I must do

 

[Davsaab9-506]

yes I am fearing I have a big job on my hands. thanks for the advice and the article it is very comprehensive. much appreciated

thanks Im hoping this is not the case. I do not have any excessive chain noise and when I recently completed the tensioner washer and O-ring seal replacement the tensioner length was well within spec. I will check thanks

 

[unclemiltie]

I too feel l ike I have this job in my future. My car has developed an oil leak and I've changed the tensioner seals and the front oil seal to no avail. But I have a lot of oil on the front of the engine and my driveway is taking a beating.

Oh how I wish that I had just pulled the head and did the head gasket and timing cover when I changed the engine last winter. Crap!

 

[Davsaab9-506]

I too feel l ike I have this job in my future. My car has developed an oil leak and I've changed the tensioner seals and the front oil seal to no avail. But I have a lot of oil on the front of the engine and my driveway is taking a beating.

Oh how I wish that I had just pulled the head and did the head gasket and timing cover when I changed the engine last winter. Crap!

I feel for you.

as you know if you do the head gasket they also recommend changing the timing chains and the guides etc. Not cheap with everything all together. Even if our time is discounted.

did you do the timing cover with the car engine in situ in the car? was it ok?

 

[unclemiltie]

I did nothing to this engine when I put it in the car, it had 86K miles on it so I figured I was in reasonably good shape.

plus it was cold in December and I was working in an unheated garage. I just wanted to get it done.

I should have put the engine on a stand and did the timing cover and head gasket. It would have been trivial at that point, but now it's a lot of work.

I've never done the timing cover in the car, I contend that I can take the engine out, do the timing chains and put it back before you can do it in the car.

 

[Jeremy R.]

I've never done the timing cover in the car, I contend that I can take the engine out, do the timing chains and put it back before you can do it in the car.

I'd have to agree after doing the job on one 9-5 with the engine in and on another with the engine out. If I'm unlucky enough to have to do the job again, the engine's coming out. If someone doesn't have a hoist or an engine stand, and doesn't want to buy or rent them, it is possible to do it all with the engine in the car. It just takes longer. Strangely enough, I felt like there was less room to do the job in the engine bay of the 9-5 than in the engine bay of my NG900, despite the 9-5 being considerably bigger.

 

[Davsaab9-506]

I did nothing to this engine when I put it in the car, it had 86K miles on it so I figured I was in reasonably good shape.

plus it was cold in December and I was working in an unheated garage. I just wanted to get it done.

I should have put the engine on a stand and did the timing cover and head gasket. It would have been trivial at that point, but now it's a lot of work.

I've never done the timing cover in the car, I contend that I can take the engine out, do the timing chains and put it back before you can do it in the car.

you are probably right but Im not sure I can take the engine out without lift/hoist.

 

[unclemiltie]

if you don't have a hoist go on craigslist, buy a used one and when you're done sell it.

When I sold mine in CA I got almost exactly what I got for it.

This time I kept it (in PA) since my dad has a use for the hydraulic ram for something else. (he needs to lift up one of his barns and re-build the foundation a bit)

 

[unclemiltie]

you are probably right but Im not sure I can take the engine out without lift/hoist.

They're not that expensive and when you're done you can sell it. Even a new one is routinely on sale at harbor freight for $149. (that is the one I had in CA)

The only downside on the 1T HF one is that the "reach" is a bit short so put a towel or something else between the hoist and your bumper to stop it from scratching.


Edit: I see you're in the UK, probably no harbor freight there. But I'm sure you can find someone that is selling one.

 

[Davsaab9-506]

They're not that expensive and when you're done you can sell it. Even a new one is routinely on sale at harbor freight for $149. (that is the one I had in CA)

The only downside on the 1T HF one is that the "reach" is a bit short so put a towel or something else between the hoist and your bumper to stop it from scratching.


Edit: I see you're in the UK, probably no harbor freight there. But I'm sure you can find someone that is selling one.

good idea thanks and I could rent one.

 

[Davsaab9-506]

I'd have to agree after doing the job on one 9-5 with the engine in and on another with the engine out. If I'm unlucky enough to have to do the job again, the engine's coming out. If someone doesn't have a hoist or an engine stand, and doesn't want to buy or rent them, it is possible to do it all with the engine in the car. It just takes longer. Strangely enough, I felt like there was less room to do the job in the engine bay of the 9-5 than in the engine bay of my NG900, despite the 9-5 being considerably bigger.

Jeremy R so it is feasible to do it in the car. Any tricks that you can remember?

 

[unclemiltie]

I too feel l ike I have this job in my future. My car has developed an oil leak and I've changed the tensioner seals and the front oil seal to no avail. But I have a lot of oil on the front of the engine and my driveway is taking a beating.

Oh how I wish that I had just pulled the head and did the head gasket and timing cover when I changed the engine last winter. Crap!

Alas I'm now convinced that I've got a head gasket job in my future. yesterday I got the hose out and cleaned the engine off pretty good, set the oil pan on a jack with a piece of wood under it, took off the wishbone support and let it run for a while. After about 10 minutes I saw a slow stream of oil running down the timing cover just toward the front of the idler pulley coming out of that spot where the tensioner resides. Given I've already changed the tensioner seals I'm pretty sure I've got the dreaded leak between the head, block and timing cover.

What are the chances that the timing cover to block interface is sealed and I just need the head gasket or am I going to have to get the timing cover off as well?

 

[microcurrent]

yesterday I got the hose out and cleaned the engine off pretty good, set the oil pan on a jack with a piece of wood under it, took off the wishbone support and let it run for a while. After about 10 minutes I saw a slow stream of oil running down the timing cover just toward the front of the idler pulley coming out of that spot where the tensioner resides. Given I've already changed the tensioner seals I'm pretty sure I've got the dreaded leak between the head, block and timing cover.

Looks like a good test. I've been fixing my black 95 to just keep it on the road with this oil leak issue, I'll go test it right now, waiting on new rear bakes caliper and rotor and pads.
Then I can get back to the turbo on my red 95 before Christmas. Ha.

Did you pull the motor unclemiltie?

 

[unclemiltie]

yea, I ended up pulling the motor and taking the timing cover off. that's where it was leaking, in fact it looked like someone changed the timing chains with the engine in the car and didn't get the cover sealed up properly. there were spots with no sealant and that is where it leaked.

that absolutely stopped the leak and I had zero drips in my driveway.