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Discussion Starter #121
Just posting a photo of third bolt retracted like the DIY. Bonehead move to miss that!
Tried to pry off pump hoping that it would come out. Opened a little, but still stuck. So went looking for fourth bolt, using new part as a template.
Think I found it and tried to photo it, but it’s not really visible. Had to break for the day.
Hoping to retract the fourth bolt next time.
Thanks for the boards help with this
 

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Discussion Starter #122
Hi Saab board,
Got the 4 bolts out, and pump came right out.
Showing old and new pumps.
I don’t have the expertise to look at the pump and find anything wrong. It does have 240k on it.
It appears to spin ok, little bit tight, but nothing that I could say is bad.

Also, got a picture of lower sprocket with tool in place from the back.
It’s coated with oil!
I guess that’s consistent with oil in the coolant resevoir.
Where is it coming from? any ideas would be helpful. Also, anyone think that I should hold up putting the new one on?
Or should I just proceed.
Thanks for any input.
 

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The oil on the sprocket and balance chain is perfectly normal. The timing chain (which runs the camshafts) and balance chain (which runs the water pump) are bathed in oil inside the timing cover - it's how they're lubricated. The water pump shaft seal is what keeps oil on the sprocket side and coolant on the pump side.

From your photos, it looks like the pump shaft seal is OK, however, flip the old pump over and take a pic of the pump impeller (the side where the long coolant pipe is inserted) - is there oil on that side? Since you're replacing the pump anyway, remove the bolts and split the pump case open and take a pic.

Edit: If you find oil on the pump impeller side that would mean the shaft seal is leaking (or if you found coolant in your oil) and though unlikely, might explain oil in your recovery tank - but I’d imagine pressure would force coolant into the timing case unless the system was empty. Do you see any cracks in the pump case that would allow oil and coolant to mix?

Edit: If the pump is OK, then it’s back to head gasket or oil cooler as the cause.
 

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Discussion Starter #124
The oil on the sprocket and balance chain is perfectly normal. The timing chain (which runs the camshafts) and balance chain (which runs the water pump) are bathed in oil inside the timing cover - it's how they're lubricated. The water pump shaft seal is what keeps oil on the sprocket side and coolant on the pump side.

From your photos, it looks like the pump shaft seal is OK, however, flip the old pump over and take a pic of the pump impeller (the side where the long coolant pipe is inserted) - is there oil on that side? Since you're replacing the pump anyway, remove the bolts and split the pump case open and take a pic.

If you find oil on the pump impeller side that would mean the shaft seal is leaking (or if you found coolant in your oil) and that would explain oil in your recovery tank. Do you see any cracks in the pump case that would allow oil and coolant to mix?
WOW 😮 thanks so much for that information, steve12955. That makes sense, the timing cover oil for the chain. Now I see.
I’m definitely going to open up the old one, to see more of what’s going on and I’ll take a picture.
Gotta put the sprocket bolts in tomorrow which makes me nervous.
i have magnetic socket for job, but was wondering if i could rig up something to catch a drop.

Would you?
Maybe a shallow cup or some kind of blocker ?
Thanks.
 

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Magnetized socket is the way to go. Just go slow and visualize what you’re doing. I don’t think there’s room for a short extension but if you add an extension to the socket wrap a little electrical tape around it so the socket can’t fall off.
 

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Discussion Starter #127
Magnetized socket is the way to go. Just go slow and visualize what you’re doing. I don’t think there’s room for a short extension but if you add an extension to the socket wrap a little electrical tape around it so the socket can’t fall off.
Hey steve12955, got the holy trinity sprocket bolts in. Didn’t drop anything into the timing area. Whew! That’s s relief. Had to cross myself as I got the father, the son and the Holy Ghost in there.
Thanks for the advice about visualization, because you sure can’t
see much of anything.
Next is putting everything back.
I got the new gaskets they said you should get, and I’m going to try hard to torque the bolts correctly.
 

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Good for you - more than halfway done...Since oil in the coolant hasn’t yet been resolved, I suggest refilling with water only at first.

If you do get oil again, it’s probably a failing oil cooler. It’s on the driver’s side below the PS reservoir. It’s aluminum and has two coolant hoses going into it. Oil circulates through an internal tube surrounded by coolant and it works like a heat exchanger - heat from the oil is absorbed by the coolant which is then sent to the radiator. If the tube leaks it will mix with coolant.
 

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Discussion Starter #129
Thanks for that idea. Filling with water makes sense, and I have thought about the oil cooler. Thanks for that description of what happens in there.

I’ll need a few days s to reassemble everything anksand do the test.

At least the path back is not as unclear as the path forward.
 

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Discussion Starter #130
Reassembled car, struggled aligning the parts as I reattached them.

Cat bracket holes would not line up with cat lower collars bolt holes.
So it’s in relying on studs from turbocharger only. And front pipe support bolts.

Everything else is the way it was.
Somehow need to bend bracket to realign, just slightly off but stuck on that one.

Filled expansion tank and restarted car.
Hardly took any new water?
Puzzled as to why?

Will run it for a while tomorrow.

Steve, no leaks, but it should have taken 5 or 6 liters of water? Shouldn’t it?
Weird?

Thanks for any thoughts.
 

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Reassembled car, struggled aligning the parts as I reattached them.

Cat bracket holes would not line up with cat lower collars bolt holes.
So it’s in relying on studs from turbocharger only. And front pipe support bolts.

Everything else is the way it was.
Somehow need to bend bracket to realign, just slightly off but stuck on that one.
Something is wrong. I wouldn't move forward until you figure it out. Bracket should line up without any problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #132
Something is wrong. I wouldn't move forward until you figure it out. Bracket should line up without any problems.
Thanks, I’ll get to the bottom of it.

Yeah I wasn’t expecting that one. I tightened the upper bolts first, thinking that would line up stuff on the bottom, but it didn’t line up.
Top of lower bracket slides on top of cat collar where there are 2 13mm bolts, and bottom of bracket has two 17mm bolts.

The cat to turbo nuts 3 studs can only slide on in one way, so I don’t see how it doesn’t line up.

My plan is to get some professional help to review my work,
1) check the water pump spindle bolts are tight
2) check 4 bolts are torqued ok
3) align cat bracket bolts
4) fill and burp coolant system to certify that system is working properly

Worth the money and piece of mind if I can find someone to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #133
Another follow up thought, the front exhaust pipe lined up nicely with cat bottom collar, wouldn’t that indicate that cat is ok where it is?

It may just be that the bracket is just very difficult to line up?
 

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If I understand you correctly, you tightened the cat to manifold connection first? You should leave those three top nuts sort of loose as that upper joint is ball-shaped to provide some adjustment. Align everything else, including any brackets, and only when everything is attached should you tighten the upper cat to manifold nuts. Tighten them evenly so you don't change the alignment. The exhaust is heavy and you don't want to stress any components especially on bumps - the brackets are there for a reason.

Also, if you've already started the car and buttoned-up the water pump how will you check what you're calling the ''spindle bolts"? The water pump cover needs to be in place or oil may be splashed out of the hole where the sprocket is located - plus that's the inside of the timing cover - you want it to be dirt-free..
 

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Discussion Starter #136
If I understand you correctly, you tightened the cat to manifold connection first? You should leave those three top nuts sort of loose as that upper joint is ball-shaped to provide some adjustment. Align everything else, including any brackets, and only when everything is attached should you tighten the upper cat to manifold nuts. Tighten them evenly so you don't change the alignment. The exhaust is heavy and you don't want to stress any components especially on bumps - the brackets are there for a reason.

Also, if you've already started the car and buttoned-up the water pump how will you check what you're calling the ''spindle bolts"? The water pump cover needs to be in place or oil may be splashed out of the hole where the sprocket is located - plus that's the inside of the timing cover - you want it to be dirt-free..
If I understand you correctly, you tightened the cat to manifold connection first? You should leave those three top nuts sort of loose as that upper joint is ball-shaped to provide some adjustment. Align everything else, including any brackets, and only when everything is attached should you tighten the upper cat to manifold nuts. Tighten them evenly so you don't change the alignment. The exhaust is heavy and you don't want to stress any components especially on bumps - the brackets are there for a reason.

Also, if you've already started the car and buttoned-up the water pump how will you check what you're calling the ''spindle bolts"? The water pump cover needs to be in place or oil may be splashed out of the hole where the sprocket is located - plus that's the inside of the timing cover - you want it to be dirt-free..
Yes Steve, I did the cat to the manifold first, and tightened them first.
So, that must be my problem. Thanks Steve.
Yeah I was discouraged when they didn’t line up. Thanks for the heads up.

Spindle bolts
I was thinking a mechanic would remove timing cover and just make sure the inner bolts feel tight and torqued enough to satisfy a mechanic?
Wouldn’t want a mistake there. Then put cover back on.?
 

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Sure, loosen the manifold nuts and it'll all line up. I suppose you could have someone look at the wp sprocket bolts but I'd bet you tightened them just fine - plus I don't think there's enough room to fit a torque wrench anyway.

Edit: Torque spec for the three sprocket bolts is 6 ft lbs.
 

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Discussion Starter #140
Sure, loosen the manifold nuts and it'll all line up. I suppose you could have someone look at the wp sprocket bolts but I'd bet you tightened them just fine - plus I don't think there's enough room to fit a torque wrench anyway.

Edit: Torque spec for the three sprocket bolts is 6 ft lbs.
OK, loosened the manifold nuts, and I was able to line the lower bolts up and got them in. Thanks.
Reconnected everything and filled system with distilled water. For some reason the system took all the water you would expect, about 6 liters.
So, that has to be good.

Started car, runs smoothly but I’m getting smoke from the top of the cat.
Attached a picture, video won’t upload, but it was just smoke rising from the cat area.
I was thinking it must be exhaust getting out of the joint between the cat and the manifold.

So I need to reseat cat against manifold because I’m out of line slightly?
Thanks for any help.
 

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