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Okay I'm paranoid! My mechanic is being a little too nice to me and I'm a little confused about these parts..

My CEL came on a few weeks ago and it was the o2 sensor. That was $600 (including a power window fix) and I got that replaced.

A week later, the CEl comes back on and my dad's scanner says it's an air injection system problem. There was a blinking "o" which I read meant oxygen. So i thought it was the recently replaced o2 sensor that's gone bad for some reason. (I never scanned the first CEL myself so we I wasn't sure what the code for a failed o2 sensor would be)

The mechanic told me that it has nothing to do with the o2 sensor, and is charging me for another diagnostic $76 and a "relay" for $80. Labor will be free, he said, because it takes 1 minute to replace the relay fuse.

Does this sound right? I don't know if I'm being duped in getting unnecessary parts or what...
 

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$600 sounds like an awful lot of money for just an O2 sensor and power window fix....I bought a universal bosch sensor off ebay for $28 shipped and put it in myself in a half hour.

What shop are you going to?
 

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The blinking o symbol probably was not caused by the O2 sensor. I think it was the OBD readiness status. Read the P0XXX codes and address the problems they indicate. The Air Injection system is complicated and the codes do not necessarily indicate what has gone wrong with the system. Check the hoses first. If there is a leak it is an easy fix and worth doing. If one of the components goes bad it will be expensive to repair.

The SAI is a mess so I disabled mine by pulling relay fuse C. The CEL comes on occasionally but it is related to the O2 sensor not detecting the expected oxygen after startup. When it happens I just reset the CEL and keep on driving.
 

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KSpark said:
$600 sounds like an awful lot of money for just an O2 sensor and power window fix....I bought a universal Bosch sensor off ebay for $28 shipped and put it in myself in a half hour.

What shop are you going to?
The V6 uses 2 O2 sensors, not one...K, Kudos in "buying wisest", but not all have the time and skill for this.
More Kudos for the DIY skills, but again, ...we are fortuniate...:cheesy:

Also, the $600 may include some other work not even mentioned , as an ex-mechanic, I think this is unfair to all parties.....
The time for dealers and mechanics to publicly explain their "excessively high" charges is long past due..

Copied : The mechanic told me that it has nothing to do with the O2 sensor, and is charging me for another diagnostic $76 and a "relay" for $80. Labor will be free, he said, because it takes 1 minute to replace the relay fuse.
Does this sound right? I don't know if I'm being duped in getting unnecessary parts or what...

Are you independently wealthy ?
Some of us are(ballplayers,politicians, lawyers)..
If not find a more reasonable mechanic or a less expensive car to maintain....

IMO, this mechanic is overcharging and taking advantage; I'd dump him.
Have the old man replace the relay, if, and only if necessary..
 

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earthworm said:
The V6 uses 2 O2 sensors, not one...K, Kudos in "buying wisest", but not all have the time and skill for this.
More Kudos for the DIY skills, but again, ...we are fortuniate...:cheesy:

Also, the $600 may include some other work not even mentioned , as an ex-mechanic, I think this is unfair to all parties.....
The time for dealers and mechanics to publicly explain their "excessively high" charges is long past due..

Copied : The mechanic told me that it has nothing to do with the O2 sensor, and is charging me for another diagnostic $76 and a "relay" for $80. Labor will be free, he said, because it takes 1 minute to replace the relay fuse.
Does this sound right? I don't know if I'm being duped in getting unnecessary parts or what...

Are you independently wealthy ?
Some of us are(ballplayers,politicians, lawyers)..
If not find a more reasonable mechanic or a less expensive car to maintain....

IMO, this mechanic is overcharging and taking advantage; I'd dump him.
Have the old man replace the relay, if, and only if necessary..
You're all wrong, the 1996 -1997 V6 uses four (4) Oxygen sensors to be exact, its OBD2 compliant. 2 upstream sensors, Bank 1 Sensor 1 and Bank 2 Sensor 1, then 2 downstream sensors, or Post-Cat sensors, Bank 1 Sensor 2 and Bank 2 Sensor 2. The V6 sensors are very expensive, if you get the OEM original type. They list for $400 CAD each. These are the type with the factory original wiring plug connector. You have to be careful using universals with the V6, the OBD2 systems are very sensitive to ground faults with universals so if you use universals, you have to solder the connections and heatshrink them.

Shop rates are displayed in the reception area or office, you should take notice of them before you sign a work order and authorize the repairs. Standard shop rates in my area are between $75 - $105 per hour rate.

For those who don't know, V6 parts are sometimes more expensive than regular Saab I4 engine parts, the V6 is an Opel engine, some direct fit parts have to be imported from Europe for this engine if the Cadallic dealer can't get them; The Catara engine is the same design, Opel engine as well (its VIN starts off W06VR... not the regular 1G6 as real Cadallics do)
 

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Diosnoche said:
You're all wrong, the 1996 -1997 V6 uses four (4) Oxygen sensors to be exact, its OBD2 compliant. 2 upstream sensors, Bank 1 Sensor 1 and Bank 2 Sensor 1, then 2 downstream sensors, or Post-Cat sensors, Bank 1 Sensor 2 and Bank 2 Sensor 2. The V6 sensors are very expensive, if you get the OEM original type. They list for $400 CAD each. These are the type with the factory original wiring plug connector. You have to be careful using universals with the V6, the OBD2 systems are very sensitive to ground faults with universals so if you use universals, you have to solder the connections and heatshrink them.

Shop rates are displayed in the reception area or office, you should take notice of them before you sign a work order and authorize the repairs. Standard shop rates in my area are between $75 - $105 per hour rate.

For those who don't know, V6 parts are sometimes more expensive than regular Saab I4 engine parts, the V6 is an Opel engine, some direct fit parts have to be imported from Europe for this engine if the Cadallic dealer can't get them; The Catara engine is the same design, Opel engine as well (its VIN starts off W06VR... not the regular 1G6 as real Cadallics do)
Here:

http://parts.autopartsonlinecanada.com/parts/apocanada/quote.jsp?year=1997&product=C5010-267467&application=000300909&part=Oxygen%20Sensor&category=C

It specify 2 per wehicle and it is not 400 CAD.
 

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SIGP2101 said:
Here:

It specify 2 per wehicle and it is not 400 CAD.
Oh I was unaware that you were familuar with the V6 engine, 1000 pardon's. Seeing as I have a V6, and I've changed 3 of the 4 visible sensors, I guess I must be in the wrong....:cry: Because according to your findings there are only 2 per vehicle.

If you don't know, don't say anything, you're just gonna confuse other people who are actually looking for knowledgable assistance. 1996-1997 OBD2 equipped V6 vehicles have 4 oxygen sensors, the 2 upstream sensors are the same, but the 2 downstream sensors arn't the same.



If you shop around at real in-person parts counters prices range; I can't believe the amount of people who buy autoparts through online resellers, very interesting. When you own a shop you don't usually buy parts online because you need the parts right away, the customers in either waiting in the office or expects the car back the same day. I don't buy my parts from online suppliers, I deal direct and the prices quoted can vary with my suppliers.
 

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muffinpost said:
A week later, the CEl comes back on and my dad's scanner says it's an air injection system problem.
Do you know what the OBD codes were that showed up on your scanner? Post them here, it will greatly help.



Sometimes its the SAI pump that is the problem, I've already changed mine twice, both times the pump was filled with water which makes me believe the motor rusted up and seized.



The other things that could go wrong with the SAI system is the valves seize up and don't open when their suppose to.



The last part of the SAI system diagram for the V6 engine. These are the tubes that connect the air supply to the exhaust manifold.

Check all of these components to see that the hoses are good, that the pump works, and nothing is rusted. There really isn't much to the system.

I've removed my SAI pump for more than 6 months with no adverse effects, not even a CEL light.
 

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Diosnoche said:
Oh I was unaware that you were familuar with the V6 engine, 1000 pardon's. Seeing as I have a V6, and I've changed 3 of the 4 visible sensors, I guess I must be in the wrong....:cry: Because according to your findings there are only 2 per vehicle.

.
I don’t want to get involved in pissing contest, but you don’t have to be soo sarcastic. My post wasn’t meant to show how smart I am and how “stupid” you are, but more like confusing find that have to be clarified for us. This is after all DIY forum, and I apologize to all members for creating such confusion by being so short sighted.

Diosnoche thanks for clarifying this for us. I stand corrected.
 
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