[nvnative1995]

I'm a car guy but have never had dealings with any Saab. Then a friend asked me to help her move an 84 900 out of a storage lot. it has been sitting for well over a decade so I'm not trying to start it, but I can't get it to roll so i can load it on a trailer. I was convinced it was a problem with the ignition because if i crank it in gear it lurches, but if i push in the clutch or put the trans in neutral, it cranks normally (I removed the fuel pump relay before it tried to crank it to keep any sludge from running through the fuel system).
I could tell the key was not engaging properly because it didn't click through the detents (i hot wired the switch to get it to crank). I cut up a socket to get the goofy nuts off of the ignition/shifter assembly, then took the whole thing apart. The switch appeared to working correctly and i could click it through the detents and get it to crank, but still can't figure out how to get the trans in neutral so it will roll. I even tried wedging a length of pipe on the seat to hold the clutch pedal down, but no luck.
Is there some sort of an interlock that will allow the trans to disengage so the car will roll freely?
I'm pulling out what little hair i have left, so I appreciate any advice you can give me!

 

[Jim Mesthene]

There's an 83.4% chance that 4th gear has welded itself to the pinion shaft in the transmission.
That would make it like it's stuck in 4th (after the clutch) without the gear being selected. You can select another gear and it will be in two gears at once.
You'll need to roll it on a jack.

 

[nvnative1995]

Wow, that's crazy! I have never heard of anything like that.
But if that is the case, wouldn't the car still appear to be in gear when I crank the starter? Because if I push in the clutch or put the trans in neutral, i can crank the starter and the car won't move. If the car is in gear and I don't push in the clutch, the car moves when i crank it.

 

[900power]

Does the shifter feel like it's changing gears?

 

[Jim Mesthene]

They can also jam the ring & pinion.

 

[Matt Dupuis]

Wow, that's crazy! I have never heard of anything like that.
But if that is the case, wouldn't the car still appear to be in gear when I crank the starter? Because if I push in the clutch or put the trans in neutral, i can crank the starter and the car won't move. If the car is in gear and I don't push in the clutch, the car moves when i crank it.

Am I missing something?

If you push in the clutch or put the trans in neutral, you can crank the engine and the car won't move. That's normal for any car with a manual transmission. You've disengaged the engine from the transmission, and therefore the wheels, so the car can be started or sit there idling without the car moving.

If the car is in gear and you don't push in the clutch, the car moves when you crank it. That's normal for any car with a manual transmission also. This way the engine can transmit power to the ground to propel the car.

Saab 900s have a reverse interlock that prevents you from removing the key without putting the car in reverse, and won't let you put the car into neutral without the key inserted and turned to the "run" position. Many of these mechanisms have failed but they are definitely out there to trip you up.

 

[Jim Mesthene]

Jack up a wheel. See if it turns.

 

[02Pilot]

If all you need to do is roll it on a trailer, and it is indeed jammed somewhere in the drivetrain, why not just jack it up and pop the halfshafts out? Or, if the lot is paved, throw some wheel dollies under the front wheels?

 

[jvanabra]

Am I missing something?

I'm with you. Nothing sounds wrong to me.


Maybe OP doesn't understand the key needs to be turned to get the car out of reverse?

 

[Jim Mesthene]

...I even tried wedging a length of pipe on the seat to hold the clutch pedal down, but no luck.

I think the transmission is locked up, maybe by being in two gears at once.
Just a guess.

 

[Matt Dupuis]

I'm with you. Nothing sounds wrong to me.


Maybe OP doesn't understand the key needs to be turned to get the car out of reverse?

Could be a combination of that and stuck parking brake cables.

 

[jvanabra]

This here:


"If the car is in gear and I don't push in the clutch, the car moves when i crank it."


is how cars work…. if the transmission is in a gear, and the clutch is disengaged (motor coupled to trans) then if the motor turns, the car is gonna move. Period.

 

[Jim Mesthene]

Why won't it roll with the clutch disengaged?

 

[jvanabra]

I think because it's in gear. I think maybe he is not understanding the shifter interlock?

 

[nvnative1995]

Wow, thanks for all the input.
I have completely taking apart the shifter/ignition assembly between the seats because I suspected the interlock was the issue, and when i put it back together the reverse lockout has been disabled and I am using a screwdriver to work the ignition switch. So i have completely eliminated the mechanical lockout between the seats as the issue.
I can move the shifter through the gears, it is a little sloppy, but I can get into each gear.
I had one front wheel jacked up for much of this because i thought i was going crazy (I definitely know how a clutch works, that why this car has me so puzzled).
The parking brake is not locked up, because when i have the tire off the ground it does move, but only enough to know the car is in gear.
Pulling the half shafts is a good idea, but i know on some cars it can be a real pain to get them out, and some cars will not roll without the shaft in the wheel side. Will the 900 move with the half shafts removed?
Does anyone want to buy a nice slightly used Saab that doesn't want to leave it's long time home??

 

[jvanabra]

I think we are still confused about the problem.... we don't know what it is.

if i crank it in gear it lurches

This is what should happen.

but if i push in the clutch or put the trans in neutral, it cranks normally

This is what should happen.

Is there some sort of an interlock that will allow the trans to disengage so the car will roll freely?

Yes, you put the transmission in neutral.

Because if I push in the clutch or put the trans in neutral, i can crank the starter and the car won't move.

This is what should happen.

If the car is in gear and I don't push in the clutch, the car moves when i crank it.

This is also what should happen.

Everything you have described is exactly how manual transmissions work.

 

[nvnative1995]

Bottom line is that the car will not roll when the trans is in neutral. It still feels like it is in gear.

 

[newtonek]

What if you crank it a little bit longer (a few seconds) while it's in gear? Can you actually move the car (by, say, a few meters) just using the starter motor?

 

[nvnative1995]

What if you crank it a little bit longer (a few seconds) while it's in gear? Can you actually move the car (by, say, a few meters) just using the starter motor?

I have considered that, and it is starting to look my best option right now. Thank you for the advice everyone!

 

[Matt Dupuis]

Car cranks normally in neutral (you didn't say if you had the clutch in or out, but if you had it out) = the transmission is free.
Car cranks normally in gear with the clutch in = clutch is working.
One wheel in the air, transmission in neutral, parking brake off, wheel will not spin freely = ring & pinion are not spinning freely.

My guess is that it's a chewed up pinion bearing / dead ring & pinion.

Do you know if the car was driven into the storage lot, or dumped there?