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Not too long ago the cylinder head on my c900 blew the gasket. I figured while I had it all apart I would check my lifters for sticking since they would normally be noisy while its first started and one would stay noisy when ever it liked. I realized that with the lifter out and the oil port facing down I could pump out the old oil (which was old and nasty) by pumping the center piece in and out with a set of pliers being careful not to nick anything. Once I got the old oil out I submersed them in a solution of 3/4 parts lucas oil additive and 1/4 the synthetic oil I usually run. then I began pumping them again with the port aiming up while still submersed until it stopped spitting up bubbles. then I positioned the port of the lifter to the oil ports of the cylinder head. Of course at first when I started the engine for the first time after repairs they where quite a bit noisy but once they became completely filled they have not made a single click noise since. not even after letting it sit for at least a week. they also have 170k miles on them. I hope this helps some one or at least it may be worth the effort on your next top end repair.
 

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This is always worth a try if you have access to the lifters and it often works although occasionally it doesn't. Some experts argue against it and it can sometimes make a quiet lifter noisy.

Positioning the oil port is not really important as the lifter rotates in use due to the offset action of the cam.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Positioning the oil port is not really important as the lifter rotates in use due to the offset action of the cam. 14 Hours Ago 11:22 PM

I thought as much but really wasnt sure. I just figured doing so might help the initial repriming of them. I was also concerned with messing with them. one thing I have learned is that sometimes messing with old parts makes things worse but once I saw the ultra dark black oil come out of the lifter i felt it was worth the effort. I had used all kinds of cleaners and additives trying to quiet them and I had a spare set so i took the risk. I fully agree with you though that it definitely is something you have to do at your own risk. although i figured the really thick viscosity of Lucas would help cover the wear in the old lifters.
 

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... i figured the really thick viscosity of Lucas would help cover the wear in the old lifters.
It's the worst thing you could do. If you want to clean stuff in the engine, just run Mobil 1 10w-30. High viscosity oils and thickeners impede flow and offer no advantage at all. Seafoam and 'flushes' actually cause harm. High flow of quality oil is what keeps things lubricated, there's no 'cushioning effect' from heavy oil. It's a myth, and a harmful one. I've seen synthetic oils free stuck rings in a few weeks.
 

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just run Mobil 1 10w-30. High viscosity oils and thickeners impede flow and offer no advantage at all. Seafoam and 'flushes' actually cause harm. High flow of quality oil is what keeps things lubricated, there's no 'cushioning effect' from heavy oil. It's a myth, and a harmful one. I've seen synthetic oils free stuck rings in a few weeks.[/QUOTE

I have a question. How do the lifters cycle out the old oil? I ask because I have had this particular saab for a few years and one of the first things I ended up doing was replacing the front and rear main seal and a few gaskets because my other saabs always started leaking bad after switching to synthetic. since then I have been running nothing but mobil 1 10w30 in the winter and 10w40 in the really hot texas summer months and change the oil in 4500 mile intervals (I know that is unnecessarily early but I drive it hard I figured it wont hurt anything to keep fresh as possible oil). I also use a high grade oil filter like k&n, mobil1 and wix depending on my budget. I do not doubt the cleaning abilities of mobil 1 since when I replaced the transmission there was no sludge in the pan at all. However the lifters never quieted and the oil was very black that I drained out of them while the oil in the crank case at the time was still a nice golden. I ask because I want to make sure I dont have another problem somewhere else.
 

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I have a question. How do the lifters cycle out the old oil?
The oil in the lifters is gradually cycled every time the engine is stopped then started again. When the engine is stationary a few valves will be open or partially open and those lifters fully compressed and the oil fully expelled. The lifters fill again with oil when the engine is started. When the engine is running there is very little or no cycling in the lifter oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I see, that makes alot of sense. I can see how the high viscosity oils can create issues at that point. I used lucas every 3rd or 4th oil change but for the most part I used straight mobil 1. Could worn lifters be a cause for poor drainage?
 

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I meant that when I had removed the lifters it didnt seem to have any fresh oil in it. I understand that it is a very small amount that gets ejected and replaced in the lifter but I didnt expect the oil that came out of the lifters to be so very dark and nasty looking considering that I have been running synthetic for over 4 years.
 

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I meant that when I had removed the lifters it didnt seem to have any fresh oil in it. I understand that it is a very small amount that gets ejected and replaced in the lifter but I didnt expect the oil that came out of the lifters to be so very dark and nasty looking considering that I have been running synthetic for over 4 years.
they probably get very hot, the lifter is in direct contact with the valve stem?

bit of coking perhaps? heat soak after engine off?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I thought the synthetic oil would have taken care of most of those issues. I didnt notice any coking and once I had the lifter out the oil was dripping out rather easily. I just started to pump them to speed up the process of draining them. I originally thought that one was plugged at the port or in the recess that allows the oil to flow to the port but it was all clean and void of any obstructions. As weird as I find it all, they are still working great and are not making any noise. even after a hard autocross racing weekend in 90+ degree weather. Thanks again for all the feedback fellas
 

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As weird as I find it all, they are still working great and are not making any noise. even after a hard autocross racing weekend in 90+ degree weather.
High heat tends to thin the oil. Thin oil flows faster and cleans better.
Modern Hondas require 0w-20 oil. Modern synthetic oils work just fine at water-like consistency. If you want to clean stuff, use thin synthetic. Someone here noticed that using Seafoam or Motor Flush is pouring non-oil in your crankcase; think about that. Seafoam (per MSDS) is 1/3 alcohol, 1/3 kerosene, 1/3 Coleman fuel (Naptha). Put that in your car at your own risk.
 

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High heat tends to thin the oil. Thin oil flows faster and cleans better.
Modern Hondas require 0w-20 oil. Modern synthetic oils work just fine at water-like consistency. If you want to clean stuff, use thin synthetic. Someone here noticed that using Seafoam or Motor Flush is pouring non-oil in your crankcase; think about that. Seafoam (per MSDS) is 1/3 alcohol, 1/3 kerosene, 1/3 Coleman fuel (Naptha). Put that in your car at your own risk.
So Jim, let me see If I get this straight.

I have maybe two noise lifters in my 87, they get pretty noisy so if I change the oil for something thicker like a 0w-20 or 10-w20 and then run the car it could help with the noisy lifters ?

Should the car be run hard when changing to a thin oil ?

for how long ?

Thanks.
 

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So Jim, let me see If I get this straight.

I have maybe two noise lifters in my 87, they get pretty noisy so if I change the oil for something thicker like a 0w-20 or 10-w20 and then run the car it could help with the noisy lifters ?

Should the car be run hard when changing to a thin oil ?

for how long ?

Thanks.
I think you are in error here jamengual, or maybe just a typo. 0w-20 and 10-w20 are thinner oils, not thicker. But I agree with Jim here; a thin synthetic will help to clean things and maybe gradually help with your lifters. It's my opinion that noisy lifters are not caused by oil failing to get into the lifter, but oil varnish inside the lifter clogging and not allowing it to open fully under oil pressure when not lifting. The synthetic may help to cure things here, but don't rely on it.

Not sure what you mean by running car hard. The lifters have no knowledge of how hard you are driving, only the revs you are doing. Don't know if it will make any difference, but keeping the revs above about 2.5k rpm will keep the oil pressure up and assist in opening the lifter by ensuring it has a good supply of oil.

PS - A word of warning; If your car is high mileage, it may suffer lower than average oil pressure at idle. If you don't have a pressure gauge, you will not know this, but with a thinner oil your oil warning light may flicker at idle with a thinner oil, particularly when the engine is thoroughly warmed up. I would not think this is a matter for concern, as long as it goes out when the revs rise.
 

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maybe he's referring to the fact that at idle oil pressure it takes ages to quieten down the lifters, so ppl go for a drive to get the lifters quiet, the driving is just higher rev/higher oil pressure that helps them quieten down you don't need to thrash the car though lol
 

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maybe he's referring to the fact that at idle oil pressure it takes ages to quieten down the lifters, so ppl go for a drive to get the lifters quiet, the driving is just higher rev/higher oil pressure that helps them quieten down you don't need to thrash the car though lol
That is what I was referring to, but now I get that is just high revs.
 

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I think you are in error here jamengual, or maybe just a typo. 0w-20 and 10-w20 are thinner oils, not thicker. But I agree with Jim here; a thin synthetic will help to clean things
so 0w-20 and 10w-20 are thinner oils and you said thin synthetic so is not the same ?

Sorry but I don't know much about oils so maybe there is no such thing as 10w-20 and or maybe you guys refer to synthetic compared with mineral that is thinner ?
 

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so 0w-20 and 10w-20 are thinner oils and you said thin synthetic so is not the same ?

Sorry but I don't know much about oils so maybe there is no such thing as 10w-20 and or maybe you guys refer to synthetic compared with mineral that is thinner ?
There are mineral oils and there are synthetic oils. They are both produced in thin grades and thicker grades and subject to the same viscosity grading. For the grade you mention (if available) the 10w (winter) indicates the maximum viscosity at low temperature. The second number 20 is the viscosity limit at 100°C and all oils with this number must achieve this.

To sum up, the lower the numbers the thinner the oil. The first number is viscosity at low temperature the second number is the viscosity at high temp. Both mineral and synthetic are rated the same way. If you want a thin oil I suggest 5W30, in synthetic if you wish.
 

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I don't think there's ever a reason to prefer a 5w-30 to a 0w-30. Both will have the same viscosity at operating temperatures, and both will be too viscous at ambient temperatures. I suppose there's a view that 0ws will leak more. But again, at operating temperatures they will be the same. Since you want it thinner than either will be at ambient to lube your engine, why not start with an oil as thin as possible at ambient?
 
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