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Discussion Starter #102
Why is Checking... Check OK a strange new symptom? The car should do that every time you turn the key on.
Since the time I removed Alarm Box I was getting "Checking" and then "Service Theft Alarm". Check OK is new since my car was stall again two days ago.
By the way the coreect fuse numbers are 13 (for radio,diagnostic) and 11 (for Dice/Twice) not 15 and 13 as I origially posted.
 

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Service Theft Alarm should appear if the alarm battery module is removed without first disabling the theft alarm with tech 2. I don't know what system is programmed when you do that, I presume DICE - Mimmi probably knows. If the system is no longer aware there was ever an alarm battery module, that suggests DICE may have a problem which we discussed a long time ago.

You need to continue with the diagnostics... when the problem returns you need to see what is not working.... 12v at DIC, 12v at injectors, fuel pressure, fuel pump, etc. Or, start throwing parts at it - the ignition switch is a great possible culprit, as is a problem with the DICE module. Testing things once when they are working isn't sufficient... you need to repeat the tests when things aren't working.
 

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Discussion Starter #104
Right now when removing fuse 13 (radio, diagnostic) system behaves close to my long time NORMAL. Obviously there is no radio, but is starting without hesitation,SID shows what it used to show, there is clicking from turn signals and so on. With Fuse 13 in, starts but dies in few seconds, there is no clicking from turn signal, not actual message on SID and radio works but only for 10seconds or so. I would like to narrow the problem before throwing in parts
 

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Sounds like maybe there is possibly a short. I would examine the wiring diagram and trace exactly where fuse 13 goes, then try disconnecting or otherwise removing each of those things to see if they're the cause. When fuse 13 is removed, does it start and run every time? Like over multiple days or weeks?
 

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Discussion Starter #106
Sounds like maybe there is possibly a short. I would examine the wiring diagram and trace exactly where fuse 13 goes, then try disconnecting or otherwise removing each of those things to see if they're the cause. When fuse 13 is removed, does it start and run every time? Like over multiple days or weeks?
I just discover that issue with fuse 13 this morning. So can't answer how relaible it is. So far I tried at least ten times and it always started.
One small detal. Without fuse 13 OBD is not even powered. And with fuse 13 there is linking error
 

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if your not getting the blinker sound , that goes to the sid speaker IIRC, which i believe is is DICE powered which gets it's power from the ignition switch, A bad DICE doesn't get better, same with TWICE looking back your ride (or lack of) is a 2001 which had many issues with the ignition switch.
if you have trouble turning the key that is also a sign of things broken within the switch
 

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Discussion Starter #108
if your not getting the blinker sound , that goes to the sid speaker IIRC, which i believe is is DICE powered which gets it's power from the ignition switch, A bad DICE doesn't get better, same with TWICE looking back your ride (or lack of) is a 2001 which had many issues with the ignition switch.
if you have trouble turning the key that is also a sign of things broken within the switch
Thanks , except that with Fuse 13 removed I have the blinker sound. I am a little confused. Turning key problem is the key cylinder problem? Correct?. Is the DICE and TWICE the same unit? And what about Ignition Switch Module? And where they are locted?
 

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People confuse the ignition switch with the cylinder where the key actually goes the switch is underneath the cylinder with a large Loom of wires connected to it powering most items the tabs break off allowing the key to not turn correctly and all kinds of strange things happen,power to some not others, non starting etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #110
People confuse the ignition switch with the cylinder where the key actually goes the switch is underneath the cylinder with a large Loom of wires connected to it powering most items the tabs break off allowing the key to not turn correctly and all kinds of strange things happen,power to some not others, non starting etc.
I was flushing key cylinder and key with WD-40 I don't see any problems with turning or pupping up. Given that can the cylinder itself be eliminated as a potential cause?
 

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If it continues to turn smoothly without any clicking or binding then you could probably rule out the switch and the switch and the cylinder are connected at the bottom by a tab
 

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Discussion Starter #113
Right now looks that the big difference is from fuse 13 which is radio and diagnostic or as i found in Hayness, datalink connector. And in fact with that fuse out my OBD scanner is not even powered up. So maybe my next step should be disconnect Radio?
 

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Discussion Starter #114
Today the car behaved more or less the same. With fuse 13 starts and dies in few seconds. Without fuse 13 it runs without problems. Also without fuse 13 turn signal is displayed on the dashboard and there is cliking sound when I put fuse 13 back display and clicking stops but lights are still blinking.
I also checked voltage at the fuse 13 contacts. Upper one was aboabout 14 and lower one, which I suppose should be zero, was 0.64 V. Also when I turn ignition off with the key out I still have voltage on these fuse 13 contacts. Still removing or inserting fuse 11 (DICE/TWICE) doesn,t make any difference, which is strange for me. Any idea or direction? Please
 

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Pull the radio and disconnect it. Put #13 back in and see what happens.

I don't see #13 feeding the DICE or TWICE.

It feeds the Radio (all three connectors on the rear)
It feeds the ODB II connector under the steering wheel (not normally connected to anything)
If feeds the CD Changer connector in the trunk

Maybe there's a bleed in the trunk (wet?). Perhaps there's a short in the OBDII connector area feeding voltage some place it's not supposed to go?
 

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Discussion Starter #116 (Edited)
Pull the radio and disconnect it. Put #13 back in and see what happens.

I don't see #13 feeding the DICE or TWICE.

It feeds the Radio (all three connectors on the rear)
It feeds the ODB II connector under the steering wheel (not normally connected to anything)
If feeds the CD Changer connector in the trunk

Maybe there's a bleed in the trunk (wet?). Perhaps there's a short in the OBDII connector area feeding voltage some place it's not supposed to go?
Thanks Bob, I had to confuse numbers. #11 is feeding DICE or TWICE and I am focusing on this one because three days ago I found this fuse burnt. I don't think it was bad before but it is possible. Also we are talking a lot about DICE and TWICE as a potential culprits.
I disconnected the radio as you advise and starting and display pattern didn't change. But voltage on lower contact in fuse 13 jumped to 2.54V (before was .64V). This was without key or with in the position off or on. That jump in voltage was from diconnecting GREY/bottom connector.
My trunk is wet frequently, where exactly is that CD CHanger connector?
I realized that I have not such a fancy things as CD Changer I still may have connector in the trunk. But based on my reading CD changer is connected from Red/Pink or Upper radio connector not Grey. And again connecting or disconnecting Red didn't make any changes.
 

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The CD Changer connector is in every 9-3. Remove the left side trunk panel and you'll find it behind there. Multiple pins... I think ten but I don't recall exactly. But it will just be hanging around back there.
 

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Discussion Starter #118
The CD Changer connector is in every 9-3. Remove the left side trunk panel and you'll find it behind there. Multiple pins... I think ten but I don't recall exactly. But it will just be hanging around back there.
Thanks a lot, this is the side where I am getting some water to the trunk. I will check it tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #119
Today:
1. Surprisingly I started the car with fuse 13 inserted it run smoothly without dying (before was starting and dying). Disply on SID was "Service Theft Alarm" (before was "OK"). Still there was no turn signal display and clicking. OBD was not able to link with vehicle.
2. I started without fuse 13 and behaved as yesterday, which means, started and run smoothly, turn signal was displayed and cliking was as they it supposed to be. On lower connector of fuse 13 voltage was 2.34 which was still the same as yesterday.
3. I got to CD changer connector i found power 2.48V on pin 11(green) and 2.33V on pin 5 (white) but no any trails of corrosion or damage. I wiggle a little with trailer connector and radio connectors and repeat starting the car with and without fuse 13. It always run
4. THE BEST. At next started with fuse 13 inserted I noticed that I got clicking and display of the turn signal. Started again touching and pulling all the connectors which I was messing with and nothing did change. I turn the engine off pulled out Fuse 13 and voltage on lower contact of fuse 13 was "ZERO", as it supposed to be. It was still the same with the key in and out. I did repeted this process few times and stil is OK. But i was not able to replicate the problem.
 
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