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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently bought a 2004 black Linear and I love it. It has around 95k on it (I'm from Canada btw) and it has a butload of features (including bi-xenon I think? How can one figure out?). There are a few blips with the car, Firstly, the driver side seat belt doesn’t always retract all the way, but there doesn’t seem to be a problem once it is snug on myself. Also, I always smell burning rubber after driving for a bit? I'm guessing that it's just the engine cover. Lastly when I'm going around 60 km/hr and the car is in 4th gear, the engine rattles a bit till I go a bit faster (auto btw).

But mostly I'm posting because I consider myself to be an Audiophile. Not an experienced one mind you, but in my last car I installed a system, essentially consisting of JL speakers, an Orion Amp and a ID subwoofer. (I drove a 2004 Mazda 3) The sound system really kicked, Tons of bass, and you couldn't turn the volume all the way up without having your ears bleed. I’d get kudos from all my friends (which is why I bought a Saab!) Not that I like really loud music, but I enjoy having the option. Unfortunately my Subwoofer was stolen, and I sold the car. I did however keep my Orion 4004 Amplifier which is rated
RMS Power (4 ohms) 50 watts x 4 channels
RMS Power (2 ohms) 100 watts x 4 channels

I read there was a 30amp Lead in the trunk? Would that be so with the base 7speaker system? Also, I can't find anywhere on my amp where it says how much of a current it would draw out. Do you think there would be a problem? Also how much power does the stock Amp give to the front speakers, I'm considering either powering the 2 front speakers + sub, or install some 6x8's (or is it 6x9?) in the back + a sub. Also, since there are dash speakers and Door speakers, which would be the best to juice up?



Thanks!
 

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Power(watts) = nominal voltage x current.

Now assuming 30 amps X say 12V (Nominal) = 360W.

So 4X 90w RMS. This doesnt take into account momentary peaks where you may run into trouble.

The Eclipse amp that I looked at & nearly kept drew 90amps peak current & was rated @ 4 X125W RMS. Peak power was much higher I think 860Watts?

So for safety I'll be running a lead to the battery (fused of course).

Teddy
 

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Just had a quick look @ the amp that you linked too, it looks like the peak power output is 800Watts approx so @ 12V your looking @ 66 amps of current draw. I think that answers your question nicely.

The rear parcel shelf in my 2007 has space for 6X9's, I cant believe that they would bother change the parcel shelf from 2003- 2007?

As for which speakers to change that is personal preference?
Some like a nice Front sound stage, me I prefer a more rearward bias, so will amplify the rears plus add a sub in a box & amplify that with a Focal 400W RMS, that should give a nice kick!

Cheers Teddy
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the Reply!

Yea, I was afraid of that. Now, another option (although a BIT more expensive), would be to install the amp Running My super Thick 4 gauge all the way thought the car to the Battery (is there a place I can run it through the firewall?) Run The door speakers + newly installed 6x9's off my old amp (I'd do the dash, but I can't find any 4' speakers rated at 100watts @ 2 ohms or 50 @ 4 ohms) Then install a new Amp, connect it to the Lead in the trunk, and have it power just a subwoofer. I just have to make sure the amp is not more then 400 watts peak? (which equates to like 150 watts RMS)
Would there be an Issue with my Alternator? How good is it in our saabs! =D

Secondly, the whole power conversion, If I run my whole system @ 4 ohms (so 50watts for 2 speakers, + 100 for subwoofer) would that be safe running my Amp off the lead in the back, or does it not matter. Right now, it's dark and cold, and usually wet where I live. A nice quick install would be perferable!

Maybe A third Temporary option would be to Just use 2 channels of my Amp, install some nice 6x9's untill It gets warmer, which Leads me to my next question. Where would I get the signal for the Rear 6x9's (since I don't have the stock ones) And for a subwoofer if I wanted to keep some of the speakers running of the stock Amp. would I just splice the rear speaker signal? I had to use a LOC in my old car, would I have to do the same here?

Thanks again!
 

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I am not sure where to run the wire yet, will have a look when I run my own wire. Others have said the steering wheel grommet as well as near the back of the glovebox.

The dash L&R speakers are 4 ohm 3 and 1/2 inch speakers. Hence why a lot of ppl choose the Boston S35 option. The door speakers 6 and 1/2 inch are the only 2 ohm speakers in the car.

The alternators in our cars are probably rated around 150 amps or so I was told so when it runs out of juice the battery is called upon, when that goes flat I guess the car stops but I doubt you will be playing your system that loud unless you are into competition & by then I expect you would have your own battery just for the stereo. Well thats what they do @ the Summernats here!

As for quick installs unlikely, as I wouldnt want to do a rush job & damage my car. I have the opposite problem here we have plenty of sunshine but in the middle of a heatwave & I am grateful to go to work in air conditioned comfort. Hence why I dont feel like working on the car when I get home!

You can run the one power lead to the rear & split the power using a distribution block. I am running 4 gauge to the back of the boot as this will be sufficient for my needs (2x75W RMS & 1 X 400W RMS amps) This will be protected with an 80 amp fuse, AT full volume I expect I would go deaf pretty quick & blow the fuse so it will be self-regulating to a degree.

There are no full range signals in our cars, this has been said many times, I am using the 6X9's in my system to do the frequencies above about 150HZ as that is what is sent to the rear 4 inch drivers that I ripped out. The door speakers (as you have the 7 speaker stereo) get freq from 20HZ -200HZ. This will in my case be sent to a LOC & then the mono sub amp (Focal 1.800) to the subwoofer I have bought.
I plan on disconnecting the 6 1/2inch door speakers & using that signal for my bass frequencies.

So in your case just adding 6X9's & using the rear speaker feeds wont give you earth shattering bass... Sorry!
 

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Teddy said:
So in your case just adding 6X9's & using the rear speaker feeds wont give you earth shattering bass... Sorry!
it certainly won't. Your best bet would to get the signal off of the front door 6.5s, through a LOC, to an amp, then to the 6x9s. This will give you SOME bass, as compared to the zero bass our cars have.

I would then add a sub for a little thump in the trunk, using the same signal use for the 6x9s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
=)

Not that I want to rush an install. But Being able to keep most everything in the back, not having to diddle around with the firewall, the battery and all that jazz just seems so appealing to me! I really would like to use my old amp, but I'd be ok with buying a new one.

I am still unsure about the whole Power conversion calculation when Resistance is introduced, @ 4 ohms, I could run 50 watts to 4 speakers (or 50 two 2, and 100 to a sub) Be at 200 watts RMS / 12v = 16 Amps (nominal) and I really can't see it spiking much over 30.

So I would, replace the Front Door speakers with ones that are 4ohms (and rated at 50 watts) Get a subwoofer rated at 4 ohms (100 watts). I would have my Old amplifier (the aforementioned 4004) in the trunk connected to the power lead that's back there.

I would then remove the driver seat, gain access to the stock amp, Splice the front speaker wires and rear speaker wires and connect them to my 4 Chan LOC which would essentially lay on top of the stock amp. I would run these wires down to my Amp(which is in the trunk), then from my amp back around to the front door speakers, (I'd disconnect and tape off the old wires from the stock amp and leave them there, just incase I sold my car down the line and wanted to keep my system).

Eventually I would replace the Dash speakers and rear speakers (but keeping them connected to the old amp) for quality sake.

What do you think? Am I totally off with the whole calculation? Thanks in advance!
 

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Everything was correct except this part:

Aleksander_T said:
Splice the front speaker wires and rear speaker wires and connect them to my 4 Chan LOC which would essentially lay on top of the stock amp.
You won't need the rear wires for anything. The door wires have the only signal you'll need for a sub or 6x9's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
actually....

Upon further investigation, I read that a quick way to see how much power your amp will draw is to take the total value of the Fuses in the AMP and divide by two. I have 2 30 amp fuses = 60 /2 = 30 amps, so it looks like it would work (It also said it was a very conservative number) The real number is to take the total RMS value multiply, = 50 +50 + 200 (Bridged doubles the wattage for some reason) = 300 and divide by voltage (13.8) = 21 amps. It's also said that on average you will only use 1/3rd of the Amps.

But I'm worried about the Peak, you know when you see some silly fellow in a trash bin playing his system really loud and you feel like showing them whats up? Do you guys see any real problem playing the system at full capacity from the power lead in the back? (eg. pulling between 35-40 amps for a minute or two)
 

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If you're really interested in audophile sound, that is hi-fidelity and not simply loud and booming, then quality 6x9's are plenty of speaker real-estate for any bass note that could possibly be created in the interior of your car.

Replacing the back and dash speakers with JBL GTO's will give an excellent sound quality at almost any level for a decent price. Unless you have ears in your hips, forget the door speakers, they just destroy stereo imaging and create mud.
 

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do a search for ctrlz's posting. Also SABA's guide is great from the tech.help on this site.

I used both their postings/guides and did mine.

- added IPOD aux-in to the stock HU
- changed dash speakers to BA S35s
- added tweeters to the dash as well (cannibalized from an extra pair of Blaupunkt PCX352 coaxials which I had lying around)
- tapped the speaker signal from the left door for the sub in the boot
- BOSS amp in the boot mounted below the rear parcel shelf (tapped power from the boot harness, intended for SAAB audio upgrade I think)
- ORION 10" sub box

Sounds pretty decent and seems to be getting better over time, for some reason....only thing is that I'm thinking of doings some soundproofing in the boot to deaden the rattles/boomylike sound due to the sub..
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The problem with 6x9's is that they distort on really low notes (unlike round speakers). Also, I agree with you with the speakers in the dash, but I can't find any 3.5's that are rated for 50watts rms. I'll probably put those in aftewards, but I'd still connect the door speakers to the amp. I could go for a sub and some nice 6x9's, but then it'd be far too overwhelming in the back.
 

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Aleksander_T said:
The problem with 6x9's is that they distort on really low notes (unlike round speakers). Also, I agree with you with the speakers in the dash, but I can't find any 3.5's that are rated for 50watts rms. I'll probably put those in aftewards, but I'd still connect the door speakers to the amp. I could go for a sub and some nice 6x9's, but then it'd be far too overwhelming in the back.
The S35's are nominally 30w rms & 60w peak, isnt that enough for you? enough to make my ears cry out in pain!
Teddy
 

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Aleksander_T said:
Not that I want to rush an install. But Being able to keep most everything in the back, not having to diddle around with the firewall, the battery and all that jazz just seems so appealing to me! I

What do you think? Am I totally off with the whole calculation? Thanks in advance!
The only really hard part is finding a decent route for the power lead, the rest of the stuff is fairly easy, you have to just decide what you really want, what bits you have, what you need to buy.

I decided early on that I wanted to keep things as clean as possible, so I changed the dash speakers, these will be driven by the rear stock amp in the boot, the door speakers I thought about changing but what was the point, they only get bass frequencies from 20HZ -200HZ anyway. I thought it would be best to tap into that for the bass & add a nice amplified sub in the boot, nothing too over the top as I didnt want to comprimise boot space too much, wife is already complaining about the proposed 20 litre box as we speak.

For the rear parcel shelf I decided that the piddly 4 inch paper cone Pioneers had to go & I put in some nice Boston Acoustics 6X9's which give me all the midrange & top end that I need. This is driven by the rear amp atm but I will be adding the Focal 2.75 as soon as I get power back there.

At the moment I still have the front door speakers producing mid bass, but as soon as the sub amp gets installed they will be removed or at the very least disconnected.

As for current draw when you are talking big amps & you seem to like volume, forget the rear wiring it probably wont be enough for your needs?

Teddy
 

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Teddy said:
The only really hard part is finding a decent route for the power lead, the rest of the stuff is fairly easy, you have to just decide what you really want, what bits you have, what you need to buy.

I decided early on that I wanted to keep things as clean as possible, so I changed the dash speakers, these will be driven by the rear stock amp in the boot, the door speakers I thought about changing but what was the point, they only get bass frequencies from 20HZ -200HZ anyway. I thought it would be best to tap into that for the bass & add a nice amplified sub in the boot, nothing too over the top as I didnt want to comprimise boot space too much, wife is already complaining about the proposed 20 litre box as we speak.

For the rear parcel shelf I decided that the piddly 4 inch paper cone Pioneers had to go & I put in some nice Boston Acoustics 6X9's which give me all the midrange & top end that I need. This is driven by the rear amp atm but I will be adding the Focal 2.75 as soon as I get power back there.

At the moment I still have the front door speakers producing mid bass, but as soon as the sub amp gets installed they will be removed or at the very least disconnected.

As for current draw when you are talking big amps & you seem to like volume, forget the rear wiring it probably wont be enough for your needs?

Teddy

hi teddy,

Are you still using the stock HU? if so how do you tap the analog audio signal to the amp driving your front dash speakers? Line-level conversion?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The system I'm talking about isn't going to be massive, I'm thinking 10' sub rated at 200 watts, the 2 door speakers and my old amp. The power supply from the Boot should be sufficient. I hope.... Worst case scenario though, I'll blow a fuse and have to replace it? And yea, I've been looking at Saba's tutorial, it should help a ton! I'll get bass from the front, and the back, (I'll have to dampen the front doors) while replacing the dash/back speakers for a quality high and mid range.

And As for the bostons, if I connect them to my amp, I guarantee that they'll be blown by the first week. Not That I'd blow em myself, but my little brother is 21, and thinks he's from the ghetto. He has his own car, but when I had my old mazda, he'd turn my car on, open the doors, and let it rip while he washed his car.....
 

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The 30 A lead in the trunk is intended for AMP2.
Don't worry about peak power, use the rms number when picking wire gauge. The peak numbers are worthless.

I have a Rockford RF301S running on 8 AWG from the battery.
Davepa installed an RF401S using the 30 A circuit in the trunk. This was with AMP2 already installed using the same circuit. He measured the peak draw of AMP2 at 7-8 amps, leaving ~ 22 amps to play with on that circuit. He was driving a 12" sub with the RF401S. Davepa designed motor control circuits for a living. He contributed the audio frequency charts many of us use to figure out which speakers do what in this car. Really he knew what he was doing.

I chose to run wire to the battery because I was considering more than one amp at one point.

I don't recall anyone using that 30 A circuit and saying they had to rewire because it blew the fuse. With the car running voltage is about 14 V.
14 V * 30 A = 420 W
420 W rms is a boatload of power. That's 210 W rms x 2 channels for stereo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
ctrlz said:
I don't recall anyone using that 30 A circuit and saying they had to rewire because it blew the fuse. With the car running voltage is about 14 V.
14 V * 30 A = 420 W
420 W rms is a boatload of power. That's 210 W rms x 2 channels for stereo.
Thats what I wanted to hear! I don't have the Amp2 (or at least I highly doubt I do.. But just like when I found the bi-xenon lights, it's a perk of buying a car that was repoed =D )

Thanks again!
 

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jackchoo said:
hi teddy,

Are you still using the stock HU? if so how do you tap the analog audio signal to the amp driving your front dash speakers? Line-level conversion?
Yes the head unit or rather the rear amp in the boot drives the Boston S35's to painful levels. Remember I have the 07 stereo which uses a single boot mounted amplifier (ie 4 inputs in FL, FR, RL, RR & 7 outputs FL, FR, FDL, FDR, CTR, RL, RR) It is rated for 150W Total power which is what 10W RMS per channel? I dont really know...

If I really wanted to amp the front dash speakers, Yes I would use a LOC to an amp in the boot..

Teddy
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok now that I've decided, How much room do I have in the front doors? Should I go for the full Components? Will there be enough room for crossovers, or should I not deal with it since I have 3.5's in the dash? Is there a space somewhere for tweeters ? (like my empty 6x9 spots in the back)
 
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