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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's been ages since I posted any update to the "jerky low-end throttle response" drivability problem I've been having with my '06 9-3SS. To summarize, when I let the throttle out gradually, there is frequently (but not always) a total instantaneous slamming-shut of the throttle plate before it's reached the end of its useful travel, causing a very uncomfortable lurch.

The dealership's technician has confirmed the unusual behavior of the throttle with the Tech 2. He's also observed, with the Tech 2, that TPS channel 1 shows periodic complete voltage drop-outs. TPS channel 2 does not show similar behavior. Bottom line - when viewed with the Tech 2, OBD-II data for TPS channels 1 and 2 are NOT ALWAYS MIRRORED, but this anomaly fails to generate any codes.

The dealership requested that GM dispatch a field engineer, a guy by the name of Brian Parson out of GM'S Denver facility, to help diagnose the throttle problem. Mr. Parson tested the car, declared everything NORMAL, and stated that the TPS data anomaly as viewed with the Tech 2 that he personally witnessed was simply Tech 2 artifact (not real; just an "illusion" generated by a flaw in the Tech 2). My understanding is that Mr. Parson made this declaration after placing an oscilloscope on the TPS analog outputs and, finding them to be acceptably "mirrored", never went further to verify that the analog to digital conversion was being accomplished properly within the Trionic module. Mr. Parson also failed to validate his claim of Tech 2 artifact by observing TPS data on another 9-3.

After being told by the dealer that we had reached the end of the diagnostics road, I proceeded to an independent Saab service facility. The independent technician also noted the anomalous TPS data on my car, but, unlike the GM field engineer, the independent technician went one step further and observed the TPS data on another 9-3 with the same Tech 2. The other 9-3 did not show the same voltage drop-outs on TPS channel 1 that my car did. The independent technician ruled out Tech 2 artifact and told me that I've got a wiring problem within my car that is corrupting TPS data to the Trionic module. He also suggested that it could cost thousands of dollars in labor costs to find the problem.

I attempted to re-engage GM to continue pursuing the problem, but their "Business Resource Center" representative, a very unlikeable guy named Edwon Miles (a guess on the last name; his pronunciation was thick with dialect), told me that (1) they trust the findings of their field engineers, (2) they do not entertain findings of a non-GM-affiliated technician, and (3) my car was now [conveniently] out of warranty. It didn't matter to him that I'd been chasing the issue for two full years and started the pursuit with plenty of time left on the warranty and that their field engineer had failed to perform crucial tests to validate his "findings".

I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and, after several letters back and forth to GM's Edwon Miles, the BBB concluded that GM did not make a good faith effort to resolve the complaint. I guess GM is not concerned about a small stain on their BBB record.

I attempted to pursue "lemon law" legal action, but was told by several attorneys that the lemon law is really only applicable to new cars and, since I purchased the vehicle at Carmax with 37k miles on it, I was out of luck. The fact that I still had 12k miles left on the warranty at the time I first reported the problem to the Saab dealership was apparently unimportant.

Needless to say, I am furious about GM's failure to honor the warranty agreement on my car. The company should have been allowed to go under; the taxpayer funded bailout was a travesty!

I will NEVER, EVER, EVER, purchase another GM product and urge you potential buyers of GM Saabs that you believe are still under "warranty" to take my story under advisement before making your purchase.
 

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wow...read your story, sucks about the engineer and what not...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
No recourse in small claims court naming the party that sold the policy?
This is the original GM factory warranty. The problem is that GM's stated policy is that they will not reimburse me if I pay an independent shop for repair work and GM has apparently "encouraged" the dealership to stop pursuing the issue. At this point, I think the only (albeit very, very small) chance I'd have to get an attorney interested is to sue GM for the original purchase price of the vehicle ($21k) and legal expenses as I reported this problem a week after purchase. Obviously not a small claims thing.

BTW... is there anyone out there who has managed to find a mailing address for the General Motors Chief-Executive-Officer (currently Dan Akerson)? I know I'm smaller than a bug splat on his windshield, but perhaps going through the motions would give me some piece of mind.
 

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wow...read your story, sucks about the engineer and what not...

Ditto and interesting story.

Was the car always serviced by a Saab dealer? Was the rep/engineer a Saab person from tech services or a GM field person that handles all the lines?
And being the second owner is frequently a problem as you really aren't the customer GM sold the car to. This is common among all car makers I believe.
You might even remember years ago when some warranties weren't even transferable.

I've had extremely good luck with warranty repairs on my Saabs. My last one had a bad tranny and Saab/GM was willing to split for a new one at 93,000 miles.
I have also had regular warranty stuff taken care of past 70,000 mi. on both my 03' and 06'.
One of the main reasons I'm on my 3rd saab in 7 years is the excellent service I've gotten from Saab dealers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
One of the main reasons I'm on my 3rd saab in 7 years is the excellent service I've gotten from Saab dealers.
I agree; the dealership has been wonderful... within the limits of their expertise. Their service dept was just in over their heads on this one and, while they firmly believed there was a problem, GM told them to ignore what their Tech 2 was saying.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Was the car always serviced by a Saab dealer? Was the rep/engineer a Saab person from tech services or a GM field person that handles all the lines?
And being the second owner is frequently a problem as you really aren't the customer GM sold the car to.
GM had already dismantled their Saab tech service department by the time this happened, so I imagine the guy was a generic field engineer.

The car was a lease return, so there really wasn't a first owner other than the first dealership. It doesn't really matter, though, because there's no clause in the warranty contract that says "only applicable to first owner." I bought a car with remaining warranty and GM should honor it!
 

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George Romney was the Republican Governor of Michigan, US Secretary of Housing and past chairman of Nash Rambler (American Motors), in the 1950's.

My father in law has a letter signed by him when he wrote to Romney as someone suggested, to take his letter to the dealership and that the mechanic should drill holes in the trunk to let out the water from the faulty seals on his new Nash. :cheesy:

Fast forward and FIL becomes a supplier to GM and he tells his son to send a letter right to the top regarding his failing paint on his Caprice that was several years out of warranty. It worked, sometimes when a letter is processed "from the top" people react and figure it is a friend of the boss. The guy got a new paint job out of GM. It was acknowledged that the new powder systems had problems. Much of which was caused by under arm deodorant in the paint area.

I would examine lemon law, as well as small claims and you don't need a lawyer to go to small claims.

Sometimes this works, and it has for me twice. Dress well (not suit but nice), show up at the business and ask to see the manager. Have a pencil and pad and request their proper names and explain the situation when asked. My answer is that the court requires the names of parties and that you want to be sure they are correct. They have some very nice people at the county court house who gave me instructions on how to file.

In both cases (three actually), one antique trains, one windshield repair and another out of state sports photos, the perps coughed up the goods or a check.
 

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I dealt with that Edwon guy when I first filed my lemon law complaint. He was completely useless but in the end I had the last laugh and won my case. It's a shame you can't pursue through lemon law since you may have a good case.

L
It's been ages since I posted any update to the "jerky low-end throttle response" drivability problem I've been having with my '06 9-3SS. To summarize, when I let the throttle out gradually, there is frequently (but not always) a total instantaneous slamming-shut of the throttle plate before it's reached the end of its useful travel, causing a very uncomfortable lurch.

The dealership's technician has confirmed the unusual behavior of the throttle with the Tech 2. He's also observed, with the Tech 2, that TPS channel 1 shows periodic complete voltage drop-outs. TPS channel 2 does not show similar behavior. Bottom line - when viewed with the Tech 2, OBD-II data for TPS channels 1 and 2 are NOT ALWAYS MIRRORED, but this anomaly fails to generate any codes.

The dealership requested that GM dispatch a field engineer, a guy by the name of Brian Parson out of GM'S Denver facility, to help diagnose the throttle problem. Mr. Parson tested the car, declared everything NORMAL, and stated that the TPS data anomaly as viewed with the Tech 2 that he personally witnessed was simply Tech 2 artifact (not real; just an "illusion" generated by a flaw in the Tech 2). My understanding is that Mr. Parson made this declaration after placing an oscilloscope on the TPS analog outputs and, finding them to be acceptably "mirrored", never went further to verify that the analog to digital conversion was being accomplished properly within the Trionic module. Mr. Parson also failed to validate his claim of Tech 2 artifact by observing TPS data on another 9-3.

After being told by the dealer that we had reached the end of the diagnostics road, I proceeded to an independent Saab service facility. The independent technician also noted the anomalous TPS data on my car, but, unlike the GM field engineer, the independent technician went one step further and observed the TPS data on another 9-3 with the same Tech 2. The other 9-3 did not show the same voltage drop-outs on TPS channel 1 that my car did. The independent technician ruled out Tech 2 artifact and told me that I've got a wiring problem within my car that is corrupting TPS data to the Trionic module. He also suggested that it could cost thousands of dollars in labor costs to find the problem.

I attempted to re-engage GM to continue pursuing the problem, but their "Business Resource Center" representative, a very unlikeable guy named Edwon Miles (a guess on the last name; his pronunciation was thick with dialect), told me that (1) they trust the findings of their field engineers, (2) they do not entertain findings of a non-GM-affiliated technician, and (3) my car was now [conveniently] out of warranty. It didn't matter to him that I'd been chasing the issue for two full years and started the pursuit with plenty of time left on the warranty and that their field engineer had failed to perform crucial tests to validate his "findings".

I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and, after several letters back and forth to GM's Edwon Miles, the BBB concluded that GM did not make a good faith effort to resolve the complaint. I guess GM is not concerned about a small stain on their BBB record.

I attempted to pursue "lemon law" legal action, but was told by several attorneys that the lemon law is really only applicable to new cars and, since I purchased the vehicle at Carmax with 37k miles on it, I was out of luck. The fact that I still had 12k miles left on the warranty at the time I first reported the problem to the Saab dealership was apparently unimportant.

Needless to say, I am furious about GM's failure to honor the warranty agreement on my car. The company should have been allowed to go under; the taxpayer funded bailout was a travesty!

I will NEVER, EVER, EVER, purchase another GM product and urge you potential buyers of GM Saabs that you believe are still under "warranty" to take my story under advisement before making your purchase.
 

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Sup stranger, hows the G doin?

:cheesy:

I'll shoot u a txt

I dealt with that Edwon guy when I first filed my lemon law complaint. He was completely useless but in the end I had the last laugh and won my case. It's a shame you can't pursue through lemon law since you may have a good case.

L
 

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That's a terrible story, and quite the stroke of bad luck. I know what it's like going through the corporate hoops when they have wronged you. Mine didn't end on a good note but hopefully yours will. (Economy Lube blew up my old car -30 degrees Celsius, and a 2hr tow truck wait... Didn't see a dime because of paper work or lack there of... Sweet). If I was you I would start to try to contact alternate GM officials, getting stuck with the same moron (Edward M.) is going to go nowhere.
 

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They always say to kick adz and take names. Prewitt is why when I went into the dealer with a key problem last week I commented that I wanted it looked at for the cloud of smoke when the car did start. Nice guy and said that it did not do it when I just started it and I said I know but I want it logged that it did. He was first on the phone with me the day before telling me to "start her up and see what happens" ... my "holy schixx blue smoke" was almost the scream of a hysterical Catholic school girl when she figure out why you stand real close when she wears patent leather pumps.

:cheesy::cheesy:
 

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They always say to kick adz and take names. Prewitt is why when I went into the dealer with a key problem last week I commented that I wanted it looked at for the cloud of smoke when the car did start. Nice guy and said that it did not do it when I just started it and I said I know but I want it logged that it did. He was first on the phone with me the day before telling me to "start her up and see what happens" ... my "holy schixx blue smoke" was almost the scream of a hysterical Catholic school girl when she figure out why you stand real close when she wears patent leather pumps.

:cheesy::cheesy:

Well without any offense to Prewitt, I know the guy personally and hes a great guy, but he did have a lot of problems with his Aero. I think that what you said is the right thing to do, and what John did. Log everything, and make sure you scream every single time something is wrong with your car. Gives you more ammo in case you need to fight a battle with GM/Spyker/Saab/The Federal Government/whoever the hell is responsible for Saab service, since that department doesnt exist anymore (as a national entity). Thats why the original poster got stuck with a generic field engineer, same as John (Prewitt)
 

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Best of luck to you. Keep getting it documented and get it checked if the issue re-occurs. In my case it was pretty obvious the problem was deeper than just replacing the spark plugs and coils every time the cel came on. Even after all those attempts, General Motors only response was the problem was fixed and the vehicle functions as normal at the lemon law hearing.

They always say to kick adz and take names. Prewitt is why when I went into the dealer with a key problem last week I commented that I wanted it looked at for the cloud of smoke when the car did start. Nice guy and said that it did not do it when I just started it and I said I know but I want it logged that it did. He was first on the phone with me the day before telling me to "start her up and see what happens" ... my "holy schixx blue smoke" was almost the scream of a hysterical Catholic school girl when she figure out why you stand real close when she wears patent leather pumps.

:cheesy::cheesy:
 
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