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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I am hoping someone has an idea what is wrong with my 2005 Saab 95 ARC. She has been running great and went on a long trip last week without issue. Last night I went to start her up and she just keeps cranking but no sign of trying to run. I took her to the local GM dealership today and they spent two hours trying to figure out the issue, and they failed...they don't know what is wrong. A back round history on the car...hopefully this helps shed some light.

For a while my car had four or five codes in the computer relating to a failing DIC. I am trying to remember the codes I think they were:

P1334
P0300
P1311
I think I also had P0340. So I purchased a brand new genuine Saab DIC and replaced the failing unit.


(All related to my DIC, random misfiring and such codes)

I have also had a P1110 relating to the charge air bypass valve (I have had this code for a LONG time, and am still trying to figure out what is wrong...as I have replaced the "hooter valve" already, and just replaced the hoses last weekend trying to figure it out) The next step was to replace the boost control valve, hoping that would fix it.

After replacing the DIC as well as installing brand new NGK BCPR6ES-11 spark plugs, I erased all of the codes and drove my car for two weeks without issue. All of the codes relating to the DIC never came back. The P1110 did come back though as expected.

The dealership told me that the fuel pump and pressure are fine, they also did a compression test with the following results:

Cylinder 1 - 150 psi
Cylinder 2 - 170 psi
Cylinder 3 - 130 psi
Cylinder 4 - 160 psi

With those results, they told me that my engine was getting "tired". I am not a mechanic so I have no idea what the proper PSI should be in the cylinders.

They noted on my bill that further diagnosis found no ground signal for injector pulse. The mechanic said to me that it might be the crank position sensor, but he doubts it, or the ECU. So without SAAB diagnostic tools they can go no further. And I have no access to a Tech 2 that I am aware of in my area.

If you have any ideas, please help as I don't want to lose my Saab....she is on the operating room table flat lining and I am trying to use the paddles to save her life. Should I continue or finally pull the plug after all these years....she has been an amazing car to me and it makes me sad thinking this might be the end of the road.

Thanks for your time and knowledge.

Ryan

PS...I did try changing back to my previous DIC, thinking maby my new DIC was defective, but the car did the same thing and would not start, so I put the new DIC back in.
 

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Hi everyone,

I am hoping someone has an idea what is wrong with my 2005 Saab 95 ARC. She has been running great and went on a long trip last week without issue. Last night I went to start her up and she just keeps cranking but no sign of trying to run. I took her to the local GM dealership today and they spent two hours trying to figure out the issue, and they failed...they don't know what is wrong. A back round history on the car...hopefully this helps shed some light.

For a while my car had four or five codes in the computer relating to a failing DIC. I am trying to remember the codes I think they were:

P1334
P0300
P1311
I think I also had P0340. So I purchased a brand new genuine Saab DIC and replaced the failing unit.


(All related to my DIC, random misfiring and such codes)

I have also had a P1110 relating to the charge air bypass valve (I have had this code for a LONG time, and am still trying to figure out what is wrong...as I have replaced the "hooter valve" already, and just replaced the hoses last weekend trying to figure it out) The next step was to replace the boost control valve, hoping that would fix it.

After replacing the DIC as well as installing brand new NGK BCPR6ES-11 spark plugs, I erased all of the codes and drove my car for two weeks without issue. All of the codes relating to the DIC never came back. The P1110 did come back though as expected.

The dealership told me that the fuel pump and pressure are fine, they also did a compression test with the following results:

Cylinder 1 - 150 psi
Cylinder 2 - 170 psi
Cylinder 3 - 130 psi
Cylinder 4 - 160 psi

With those results, they told me that my engine was getting "tired". I am not a mechanic so I have no idea what the proper PSI should be in the cylinders.

They noted on my bill that further diagnosis found no ground signal for injector pulse. The mechanic said to me that it might be the crank position sensor, but he doubts it, or the ECU. So without SAAB diagnostic tools they can go no further. And I have no access to a Tech 2 that I am aware of in my area.

If you have any ideas, please help as I don't want to lose my Saab....she is on the operating room table flat lining and I am trying to use the paddles to save her life. Should I continue or finally pull the plug after all these years....she has been an amazing car to me and it makes me sad thinking this might be the end of the road.

Thanks for your time and knowledge.

Ryan

PS...I did try changing back to my previous DIC, thinking maby my new DIC was defective, but the car did the same thing and would not start, so I put the new DIC back in.
Just nabbed this tidbit from another thread regarding pretty much the same issue you're having (that thread is old and OP never came back to confirm if all is good, that usually happens when the issue is resolved lol).

***
Totally forgot to mention.

No CPS signal to ECM = no injector pulse also.

If you have a good scope or waveform viewer you can connect to the CPS wires at your ECM, crank your car and see if it's getting proper signal to ECM.

THAT is where I'd start.

Just because It's been replaced before doesn't mean it's good.

Take this with a grain of salt:

I've had CPS's on various cars that look perfect on a scope that didn't work. Popped in a new one and the car fired right up.....even though the old one tested good.
***
 

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It's odd that a GM dealer said they could go no further without a Saab scan tool, since Saabs use a Tech 2 (same as other GM cars). :roll: But I digress.

This really sounds like it could be a CPS. I would replace it as a last ditch effort. Has it been replaced before? It's almost a guaranteed failure at some point in a 9-5's life. While you crank the car, does the tachometer bounce around or remain at zero? The tach at 0 while cranking is good sign of CPS failure.
 

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I agree that the crank position sensor is a logical thing to replace at this point.

Where are you in Ontario? If it's Canada, there are Saab specialists in the Toronto area, and I think in Ottawa. I can recommend some.

Does the car ever start? Was it towed to the GM dealer?

Don't sweat the P1110 at the moment; it won't keep your car from starting.
 

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generally when the CPS has gone bad the tachometer does not move at all while cranking. When it's good it kind of bounces around.

you can check the CPS with an ohm meter but it's not the most accurate test. But I'd just crank and see if the tach is moving.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks guys for the quick response. I do know that there are a few SAAB places in Ontario...but they are 3 hours away from me.

I went to my car today and tried to start it and watched the tachometer and it did not move at all during cranking. So I have ordered a Bosch Crankshaft Position Sensor from Amazon as per everyone's advice. It will be here on Tuesday, so once I get it installed I will let you know if my car comes back to life!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi guys,


I had the CPS replaced today at the dealership finally...and my car still will NOT start. It just cranks...again my mechanic says that the injectors are not firing/opening/closing with no injector pulse to the injectors. Any more thoughts on what is going on here. He thinks it could be the ECU...



Thanks again,


Ryan
 

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Hi guys,
I had the CPS replaced today at the dealership finally...and my car still will NOT start. It just cranks...again my mechanic says that the injectors are not firing/opening/closing with no injector pulse to the injectors. Any more thoughts on what is going on here. He thinks it could be the ECU...
Ryan
Shoot, sorry to hear that. ECU is a possibility. Does that GM dealership really not have a Tech 2 they can hook up to your Saab for further diagnosis? We are unfortunately just guessing at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the response....Its looking like I am going to have to tow it 200 kilometers to a Saab garage. I stopped at my car tonight and tried to start it after the new CPS install. I noticed that when I first tried to start it, for a split second the engine seemed like it fired trying to go....like a brief puff....then nothing more just rolling again. I noticed one other thing that seems different....when the key is turned just before trying to start the car my boost gauge moves and stays between the white and yellow sections...is that normal....I don't remember seeing that before...

Thanks
 

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At a minimum, they should be able to hook up a plain ordinary ODB II reader with live data when cranking the engine. There should be a lot of info as to what the ECU thinks the RPM is (takes a bit of cranking to get the speed reading), the coolant temp, the fuel trim, etc. Of course if the reader can't connect at all, then the ECU is suspect.


To me it sounds like they don't want to deal with a Saab, so they're not putting a lot of effort into it. But they seem good at taking your money.


Whereabouts are you in Ontario?


Since the shop is uninterested, you might want to download WIS yourself (see stickies in Tech II section under general topics). There is a troubleshooting procedure for engine won't start.


The web version only skims over the troubleshooting, unfortunately:
https://saabwisonline.com/c8/9-5/20...symptoms-trionic-t7-4-cyl/car-will-not-start/
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I live near Belleville....I have purchased parts from Zoom Automotive in Scarborough which deals with Saab a lot and has the tools. I have been talking with Nigel and he believes that he can fix it, he just needs to see the car. So if I can't get this going I will have to do something.

I was watching a video on YouTube where a guy had a Saab 95 doing the same thing as my car and he was at a loss as to what was causing his car to crank and not start. He tried a bunch of things and it ended up being the spark plugs. I just replaced my spark plugs when I replaced my DIC with NGK BCPR6ES-11's. When I purchased the car it was running the NGK PFR6H-10 Laser Platinum spark plugs and each tune up I have done I used them. So tomorrow morning I am going to pull the new BCPR6ES-11's I put in two weeks ago and put back the old NGK PFR6H-10 plugs in and see if just by chance that might be the issue.

Also I do have a handheld scanner with Live Data, so I took it over tonight and cranked the engine while reading the RPMs....It read 0 before I started cranking....then fluctuated between 60 - 80 RPMs while cranking trying to start.
 

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I live near Belleville....I have purchased parts from Zoom Automotive in Scarborough which deals with Saab a lot and has the tools. I have been talking with Nigel and he believes that he can fix it, he just needs to see the car. So if I can't get this going I will have to do something.

I was watching a video on YouTube where a guy had a Saab 95 doing the same thing as my car and he was at a loss as to what was causing his car to crank and not start. He tried a bunch of things and it ended up being the spark plugs. I just replaced my spark plugs when I replaced my DIC with NGK BCPR6ES-11's. When I purchased the car it was running the NGK PFR6H-10 Laser Platinum spark plugs and each tune up I have done I used them. So tomorrow morning I am going to pull the new BCPR6ES-11's I put in two weeks ago and put back the old NGK PFR6H-10 plugs in and see if just by chance that might be the issue.

Also I do have a handheld scanner with Live Data, so I took it over tonight and cranked the engine while reading the RPMs....It read 0 before I started cranking....then fluctuated between 60 - 80 RPMs while cranking trying to start.
Nigel's team at Zoom are great. Reasonable prices for labor and the work is done properly and efficiently.
 

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Joining CAA, Canadian Tire, or some other auto club would be a worthwhile investment, assuming you can wait the waiting period before you can get a tow.

Have all the fuses been checked carefully? Also when you turn the key on, do you hear the fuel pump run?

I doubt the plugs have anything to do with the problem, but it's worth a try. Check if the plugs you remove have any gasoline odour to them. If the mechanic was right, they should be very dry. If they smell or are wet, you know the injectors are doing something.

I use Zoom for any work I don't do myself.


ETA: given that it was running fine and then suddenly wasn't at all, it's most likely a single failure somewhere. Unfortunately we haven't been able to figure out where!
 

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It's roughly the same distance to Scandinavian Auto in Ottawa, an all highway drive (no 401 T.O. crap) and a great shop.
.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks again for all of the help guys, I wanted to let you know that I had my Saab towed up to Zoom this morning.

Nigel called me within 10 minutes of the car getting there and asked me if I wanted to hear my car running while I was on the phone. I have no idea what happened, but I think I am going to have to go back to the dealership and have them explain to me how Nigel could find the issue so quickly and they couldn't.

He hit the fuel pump with a hammer and the car started. So it was the fuel pump. I know that myself when I turned over the key I could hear the pump for a second then shut off....but I wondered. I am not a mechanic as I stated above, but how can there be fuel pressure at the rail (according to the GM dealership) yet the fuel pump started to work, allowing my car to start after it was hit....

Needless to say the work is being done, and I will have to travel back up to Zoom next week to pick it up. So I figure between the labour, unnecessary CPS install, new fuel pump, this cost me 700-800 bucks. Nigel told me that my starter is on the way out as well, so I am having that replaced as well. Expensive lesson to learn I guess, but I love my 95...its been a good car to me.

Thanks again!
 

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Glad it's fixed! Always wanna check fuel issues anytime it’s cranking but not starting. Sucks it cost you so much. I did the same thing years ago with a 1999 3.0. Towed it all over the countryside trying this and that. It was a simple throttle body reset and it was fixed in 5 minutes
 

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Great that it got sorted. Replacing the CPS is worthwhile anyway, assuming that it's a correct Bosch unit.

Someone else who was communicating directly about an issue with an NG9-3 also wrote just now that a big-time GM dealer (ex Saab dealer) couldn't (or wouldn't) fix their car, but Beacon Motors was able to diagnose it right away.

One lesson I take from this is unless the GM dealership has the proper Tech II for Saabs--to show that they are interested and willing to work on Saabs--they are going to be no better than a corner garage mechanic (or maybe worse)--while charging more.

While dealers are rarely if ever interested in servicing old cars, another problem is that Saab specialists are closing up shop. In the end, there will be cities with one or more specialists remaining, but also great swaths of landscape where there's nobody.

In that case, owners will have to either find an interested and competent independent mechanic who is willing to put in the time to understand Saabs (and it's not like they are cars from Alpha Centauri), or do the diagnosis and/or work themselves, or sell/scrap their Saab.
 
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