[ace9-5]

no i want a highway racer i want my power at the high end of rpm range like 4500-7800 rpms and dont want a crazy tune not going for world records just want a 500 hp clean tune for highway racing thats it. even 450 is fine with me i just want a reputable tuner who has done it a thousand times and that will live tune it. with me and the car there and then at the time of the tune so we can see if there are issues or not.

 

[ace9-5]

does anyone know of any tuners that will actually accompany a customer to a shop with a dyno and tune your car for you. looking for a tuner that does 450-500 hp tunes. im in new england i will travel and money is not really an issue so if any comes to mind please drop me a link thanks guys

 

[ace9-5]

the engine i built is a summer weekend car that will only run on vp 117 and come out maybe once a month or when my buddies wanna go to a saab meet. i have 2 other saabs for daily driving. i hear what your saying 700 hp would not be fun even barely controllable on a regular driving basis. 450 -500 is possible but still unless your driving on hot sticky tar in the summer you'll just spin all the way to wherever your going and back lol and snow wouldn't even think about it. to each there own i have been in a 460 hp honda and i thought i really liked the power feeling it had so thats my target.

 

[Joshinator99]

Dynos provide controlled environment conditions.
Street provides real world conditions.

Tuning with the first is faster and easier.
The second needs more time and work (and won't tell you exactly what power figures you hit).

But usually you want a combination of both (if possible). Otherwise a log based tune will work the exact same (you do the same stuff as on a dyno).

Which is also why the power figures mentioned above match up when dyno tested.

Therefore, I stand by my point, which has been proved numerous times by different individuals:
If you know what you are actually doing and have the knowledge a dyno is not needed, unless you are looking for a 100% certification of power.

Agree with this...dyno tuning can leave lots of gaps to be filled (cold idle/throttle off scenarios, etc) but in terms of safely finding the upper limits its the gold standard for sure. Adjusting the rest definitely affects drivability but tends to not have catastrophic results if not addressed as the first thing.

I don't remember which YT channel took a "street" tuner that had done hundreds of the same car/ECU (with many more positive thab negative reviews), paid him, then took the car to the dyno & it was an engine replacement waiting to happen....& that was at far lower power levels & less area under the curve than the safer dyno tune they ended up with.

I agree numbers mean nothing, any dyno can read any number based on how you set it up but safely maximizing your area under the curve is key for any street application.

I understand your points, but it’s not used by any top end shops. Period. Street “tuning” is just for around town drivability and manners. You’re just filling in your VE tables and part throttle work. All real power tuning is done first on the dyno, and then dialed in at the track. Attempting to tune on the street is virtually impossible with very powerful cars like mine (1130 BHP) and the like. I’m not really seeing any really powerful cars on this forum so maybe we’re just living in different worlds power wise. And that’s OK too.

 

[Hirschmann & Koxha]

Don't get me wrong, but we have tuned a bunch of these cars that way at these power levels and the dyno numbers reflect that this method absolutely works.

Again - I am not saying that a dyno has no right to exist, but one point no one answered yet is what benefit the dyno is supposed to give, which actually helps with the final result.

A dyno just allows you to push the car stationary, while you perform your log work and adjust maps.
All the sensors you are pulling the data from are installed in the car. Not the dyno.

The only thing a dyno does is it to verify the power output and provide virtual load.

Thats it.
A good stretch of road with no incline has the exact same effect.

The actual fine tuning is done on the street, track or wherever else you plan to run your car. Since you obviously can't simulate real world conditions on a dyno.

So again - it is absolutely not necessary to use a dyno. Especially not for the targeted power level in this case (which is the actual topic of discussion here). I know it might look like bold claims to some, but I am saying this confidentially and am willed to put my money where my mouth is.

Therefore, back to the topic I would recommend ace9-5 to actually deal with a real specialist for his car than some random tuning company with no expertise with these vehicles and especially no understanding of Trionic.

 

[Joshinator99]

Don't get me wrong, but we have tuned a bunch of these cars that way at these power levels and the dyno numbers reflect that this method absolutely works.

Again - I am not saying that a dyno has no right to exist, but one point no one answered yet is what benefit the dyno is supposed to give, which actually helps with the final result.

A dyno just allows you to push the car stationary, while you perform your log work and adjust maps.
All the sensors you are pulling the data from are installed in the car. Not the dyno.

The only thing a dyno does is it to verify the power output and provide virtual load.

Thats it.
A good stretch of road with no incline has the exact same effect.

The actual fine tuning is done on the street, track or wherever else you plan to run your car. Since you obviously can't simulate real world conditions on a dyno.

So again - it is absolutely not necessary to use a dyno. Especially not for the targeted power level in this case (which is the actual topic of discussion here). I know it might look like bold claims to some, but I am saying this confidentially and am willed to put my money where my mouth is.

Therefore, back to the topic I would recommend ace9-5 to actually deal with a real specialist for his car than some random tuning company with no expertise with these vehicles.

I think we’re saying the same thing LOL. The dyno is a great tuning TOOL, that’s all. If you have a safe, clean, open area to test your car you can certainly get the same info as a dyno, I just like the controlled environment of the dyno. This lets you develop 95% of your tune without running little Timmy down on the crosswalk… . The track is best case scenario for finishing the tune, since again, you’re in an area designed for a car to go full bore with good traction.

 

[bob3000]

I’m not really seeing any really powerful cars on this forum so maybe we’re just living in different worlds power wise. And that’s OK too.

WHAT!?! Two tenths of your Camaro power is not nothing mister!!!

I want a simple (don't care what the price is if it's under a thousand dollars) tune that will scoot my twenty year old Saab that has the regular upgrade exhaust bits (manifold, down pipe, race cat, Maptune 2.5") when I want to have some semi-responsible fun on the back roads.

I have a problem with low end torque after exhaust work, no clue why, brand new plugs and DIC, Shell V-power 94 zero ethanol only/ever burnt, it's not a big problem just an annoyance because prior to the exhaust spending the car drove fine and I would like to take advantage of the exhaust investment other than the sweet sound, it pulls REALLY hard second through third, quick is a good word.

The car is mechanically completely up to date, all wear items one hundred percent, brand new tires even.

Saab tuner Scott has been great responding my questions but this thread tells me not to bother with a mail in tune and I am definitely not going to learn to tune a car.

I have a close friend that has a portable dyno that he takes to local tracks to tune folks cars and get the track and dyno experience all in one stop, he makes great money!

Anyway if Don with his giant brain isn't interested in learning T7 (can't blame him, there's about eleven Saabs in our town) I certainly would fail trying, he tuned my LS powered eighteen foot hot rod boat when I switched to Holley Sniper EFI (and ignition last year and ya carburetors officially suck), the on the fly timing with the Holley handheld is everything!

Cheapest/easiest five mile per hour top end increase ever...more efficient too.

Anyway, if mail-ins suck what to do?

 

[Joshinator99]

WHAT!?! Two tenths of your Camaro power is not nothing mister!!!

I want a simple (don't care what the price is if it's under a thousand dollars) tune that will scoot my twenty year old Saab that has the regular upgrade exhaust bits (manifold, down pipe, race cat, Maptune 2.5") when I want to have some semi-responsible fun on the back roads.

I have a problem with low end torque after exhaust work, no clue why, brand new plugs and DIC, Shell V-power 94 zero ethanol only/ever burnt, it's not a big problem just an annoyance because prior to the exhaust spending the car drove fine and I would like to take advantage of the exhaust investment other than the sweet sound, it pulls REALLY hard second through third, quick is a good word.

The car is mechanically completely up to date, all wear items one hundred percent, brand new tires even.

Saab tuner Scott has been great responding my questions but this thread tells me not to bother with a mail in tune and I am definitely not going to learn to tune a car.

I have a close friend that has a portable dyno that he takes to local tracks to tune folks cars and get the track and dyno experience all in one stop, he makes great money!

Anyway if Don with his giant brain isn't interested in learning T7 (can't blame him, there's about eleven Saabs in our town) I certainly would fail trying, he tuned my LS powered eighteen foot hot rod boat when I switched to Holley Sniper EFI (and ignition last year and ya carburetors officially suck), the on the fly timing with the Holley handheld is everything!

Cheapest/easiest five mile per hour top end increase ever...more efficient too.

Anyway, if mail-ins suck what to do?

A mail-in could be fine if you can data log some WOT runs for your tuner and even better if you’re able to integrate some wideband O2 data. These days, wideband O2 systems like the one from AEM are pretty cost effective and the even communicate over canbus. And if you’re in the 250-350 HP range, you can probably do street pulls with no problem (using common sense, of course). So in your case, you might be able to start with a tuners baseline tune and get him some data afterwards, that way adjustments can be made. If your low-end torque sucks but you’re still running the stock turbo, I’m sure the tune can bring the turbo in faster to make up for it. If you put in a bigger turbo to make a lot more HP up top, that would be a different story.

In the case of the OP, his combo is much more involved and a good bit more power, so it would likely be much more productive to do the baseline on a dyno IMO.

 

[bob3000]

I think what I'm going to do is have 'Don the tuner' help me with the P-Bus and data logging set up and work with our friend Rey at Hirschmann and Koxha.

Wide open throttle in my Saabs has always gone against my grain but I suppose I can take some for "the cause".

 

[Germaniac]

...and I'm sitting here trying really hard to imagine "WTF having 500 hp in a car which was overall never designed for it?".

I won't deny that it is somewhat intriguing to create a sleeper which makes 911 GT3-owners crying rivers in their pillows, and even if engine and drivetrain might be capable to survive after some major $$$ injections, there's still the question of how a 20+ years body will take that torque attack without the respective reinforcements (moar $$$).
Not to mention all further maintenance which will not only take more moar $$$ but also moar more moar time. And in the end, you might end up with hours and days of screwing around for rather short moments of fun (no pun intended😁).

Well, just my 2 cents. Of course, all is permitted that pleases.

 

[jvanabra]

Wide open throttle in my Saabs has always gone against my grain but I suppose I can take some for "the cause".

My man, you're missing out on most of the fun.

When we built our second 900 for racing we spent a lot of time pussyfooting it around because the local roads were not safe for road tuning. But, getting it out at Sonoma the first time and unleashing it on the front straight heading into turn 1/2 was eye-opening. A WOT pull to 120 in a 30 year old car. Yay!

My $0.02 is that for basic bolt on mods that you've described a mail-in tune will be fine - maybe a little back & forth with logs, but I think the stuff you're talking about is pretty well understood.

 

[ace9-5]

we do 1/4miles every weekend and there are a few people i would like to have eat there words plus my first car was a 67 mustang i built with my dad thats just the power i like and want its not for getting back to forth to work its a weekend drag car mostly i have my wagon for groceries

 

[Joshinator99]

we do 1/4miles every weekend and there are a few people i would like to have eat there words plus my first car was a 67 mustang i built with my dad thats just the power i like and want its not for getting back to forth to work its a weekend drag car mostly i have my wagon for groceries

Where are you running the car? I see you’re from CT and I always see a ton of CT cars at Lebanon Valley Dragway when I go.

 

[ace9-5]

no we race on an ol strecth of road that use to by a cross way untill they put the highway in its called ol84 or some people call it rt 15

 

[ace9-5]

can only run for about an hour then we split but epping has a nice drag strip and you can drag your car as long as you got a seat belt and a helmet

 

[Joshinator99]

can only run for about an hour then we split but epping has a nice drag strip and you can drag your car as long as you got a seat belt and a helmet

Lebanon Valley Dragway does the same thing as Epping on “Test & Tune” days…they’re both NHRA tracks and follow their safety rules. And LVD is a lot closer than Epping for you.

 

[bob3000]

we do 1/4miles every weekend and there are a few people i would like to have eat there words

"Eat their words" to defend your Saabs?

What kinds of cars are you up against? Where do you rank in the crowd?

Fun stuff!!!

 

[KevinC]

Saabs are much better at standing miles, there are some great videos of Swedes with huge power pulling vast speeds, like over 300km/hr or 180mph in a mile.

 

[Joshinator99]

Saabs are much better at standing miles, there are some great videos of Swedes with huge power pulling vast speeds, like over 300km/hr or 180mph in a mile.

The roll races are typically better for Saabs too since the midrange is typically very strong, and you avoid the very hard launches that typically break stuff.