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I just bought some this afternoon, while out at lunch and never even bothered to look, assuming that it had the spec.

Now I'm not sure.

Has this already come into effect or the replacement stock hasn't hit the shelves?

Thanks!

THIS POST MAY BE WORTH A "STICKY" as its crucial for everyone here!
 

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The cars are out of warranty anyway. Use a good synthetic and change it regularly. The Obsolete GM LL specs were primarily concerned with extended drain intervals. If you don't like 0W and 5W 30 oils, there are plenty of 0W and 5W 40 oils that will perform splendidly. Just change it regularly.
 

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04 9-3 Aero, 08 9-3 Aero, 09 2.0T XWD
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The master Saab mechanic here in LA swears by 15W50 in our climate. He's got a wall of it and uses it on every Saab he's serviced.
 

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The master Saab mechanic here in LA swears by 15W50 in our climate. He's got a wall of it and uses it on every Saab he's serviced.
That 15w would hardly matter here in SoCal. And I don't really know if the extra 10 in the upper range would help all that much in the heat. I'm sure it would do something, but there are theories that you would also get a little extra engine heat from the thicker oil, and possibly a little worse MPG.

Again, it's all pretty minimal, I'm sure.
 

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I just did 5W40 European SAPS Amsoil with ASL CamGuard in it (do the camguard, worth the money)

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
 

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This is a bit bizarre.

In the UK Mobil offers two different versions of Mobil 1 0W-40 that meet all GM specs related to our Saabs. I wonder what is really going on here? Dexos 2 really seems to be the relevant spec the oil is supposed to meet.

http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LCW/carengineoils_products_mobil-1-new-life-0w40.aspx#

http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LCW/carengineoils_products_mobil-1-esp-0w40.aspx

Is it they just don't want to pay for the license in the US even if the oil meets the specs...
 

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Hmm... maybe time to switch back to Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra. Better yet, maybe Rotella T6 5w40. It works wonders in my older vehicles.
 

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This is very interesting. I went home last night after seeing this and looked at the 4 unopened jugs of Mobile 1 0W-40 I have in my garage - 2 have the small "FS" on the label and 2 don't. I was thinking - as was suggested in the thread - maybe the formulations are the same but Mobile doesn't want to pay the certification license fee. Then I found the specs for the 'old' M1 0W-40 online and compared them to the "FS" 0W-40 specs. They seem different in more than a few respects:


____________________________old 0W-40_______FS 0W-40
Viscosity cSt @40C_______________78.3____________71
Viscosity cSt @100C_______________14____________12.9
Flash Point_______________________230___________226
MRV at -40C_____________________26242_________21600
HTHS Viscosity____________________3.7___________3.6

I'm guessing that the new oil is probably fine for our Saabs, but it sure seems that given these differences the label should be more clear that it's NOT the same oil we've been buying for many years.
 

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GM-LL-A-025GM approval for extended oil change intervals in petrol engines up to 30,000 km or 2 years and improved fuel economy. Meets ACEA A3/B3.

GM-LL-B-025
GM approval for long-life engine oil for diesel engines. Meets ACEA A3/B3/B4. Drain interval can be as long as 50,000 kms.

From GM's dexos™ site:

dexos™ is recommended by GM for use in all its vehicles except those with Duramax diesel engines requiring the use of API CJ-4 engine oil. dexos™ is fully backward-compatible and can be used in older vehicles.

  • dexos1™ is designed for use with gasoline engines and replaces GM-LL-A-025, GM6094M and GM4718M.
  • dexos2™ is designed for use with light-duty diesel engines and replaces GM-LL-B-025 and GM-LL-A-025.

dexos1™ approvals currently include ONLY these multi-viscosity ranges: 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30 and 5W-30.

dexos2™ approvals currently include ONLY these multi-viscosity ranges: 0W-30, 5W-30, 0W-40 and 5W-40.

So any multi-viscosity oil in the XW-40 range that previously met GM-LL-A-025 for gasoline engines, like the Mobil 1 that did, CANNOT now qualify for dexos1™ approval, which is for gasoline engines.

So, in order to make the standards truly, or at least seemingly, backwards compatible, GM had to kind of mix them up a little in the translation. Accordingly, the previously approved for gasoline engine use (GM-LL-A-025) multi-vis oils in the XW-40 ranges must now be excluded from the dexos1™ standard (which is for gasoline engines and which does not approve any XW-40 oils) and MUST be included within the dexos2™ standard for diesel engines, since only the dexos2™ standard carries approvals for oils having that multi-viscosity range.

The only thing that makes sense is that GM wanted to keep extended drain intervals AND it wanted to further incrementally increase corporate average fuel economy. Gasoline engined cars limited to 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W30 and 5W30 will get a little better fuel economy than those opting to use 0W40 and 5W40.

Once again, following GM/SAAB recommendations and approvals now is fruitless, pointless and unnecessary from a warranty standpoint for very nearly all of us. You can use a mixture of olive oil, candle wax and donkey snot now if you want, cause you ain't got no warranty if your car is out of warranty.

If your concern is the health and longevity of your engine, forget about "GM-LL" and "dexos™" and use whatever quality synthetic you want, in whatever multi-viscosity range, from 0W-30 or 5W-30 or 0W-40 or 5W-40, that meets the relevant industry performance standards (those established by API and ACEA), and change it regularly and not based upon some robotic algorithm that assumes you are using something that meets or exceeds GM-LL-A-025 (which again, is ONLY important if you are trying to avoid changing the oil more frequently than every 10,000-15,000 miles, or whenever the computer insists that you change it, whichever occurs first).

Seriously, I doubt there is any big name synthetic out there right now that is able to comply with the applicable API and ACEA standards but which would have been unable to comply with the GM-LL extended service interval requirement, had the manufacturer decided to pay for that particular proprietary approval. And, if there are some out there, it DOES NOT MATTER if you follow a set service routine like your daddy did back in the dark ages and change it around every 5,000 miles or so and write it down and do it all over again on time.

Besides, who really wants motor oil in his engine that is as black as the heart of a politician, contains more dirt than the closet of that same politician and that is clogging up that poor, teeny-tiny little fragile paper oil filter because it is so old and saturated with suspended crud and dirt? Not me, man. Fresher cleaner oil will always give more flow from the git-go.
 

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What you are saying is that we should religiously use Wolf's Head Syn-Pack 100% synthetic 5W-30 every 5,000 miles.

Got it.
Well, they claim they are licensed for API purposes and that that oil is approved for SJ-SN service applications. So that looks just okey-dokey, smokey.

But their ACEA certification looks a little hinky. They say:

Wolf’s Head 100% Synthetic Motor Oil has been carefully developed to meet the most current API Service Classification. Wolf’s Head 100% Synthetic Motor Oil is formulated to meet or exceed all new car manufacturers' warranty requirements as well as stringent industry standards such as API SN/CF, ILSAC GF-5 and meets most European ACEA specifications.
And then they say:
Wolf’s Head 100% Synthetic 0W-20, 5W-20 & 5W-30 dexos1® are specifically engineered and licensed to meet the stringent GM dexos1® engine oil specification, as well as all of the specifications outlined above for the Wolf’s Head 100% Synthetic motor oils.
So, so far, so good.

But when you look at the chart of specifications approvals, you get this for all of the ACEA standards: "Suitable for Use" which is the language all the boutique motor oil companies use to say, essentially, "we think our oil will meet or exceed that performance standard, but we have not paid for independent testing by an approved laboratory to acquire that certification."

So, does it truly meet ANY of the ACEA standards, really? It probably would, we just don't know for sure. And if you change it every 5k miles, I doubt it makes too much difference if it does not.
 

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Oil

I believe the Quartz 9000 Energy 0W30 meets the standard GM-LL-A-025. I am not sure about DEXOS 1 however and not listed on GM dexos site. Can anyone verify? I do get better fuel economy than Mobil 0W40, but that could be coincidence. I get 21-22 city/burbs with the XWD and less 19-20 with Mobil. I have compared the two and and it seems Quartz doesn't get as brown/dirty and filter cleaner as Mobil. Mobil haslower flow rates after putting in the freezer. Approved for other European vehicles as well.
http://totalengineoils.com/quartz-9000-energy-0w30/
It is more expensive, but I prefer it in my engine. If you change your oil before 7500, I don't think there is "bad" synthetic Euro blend as most have plenty of additives/detergents to protect our engines as well as keep clean.
 

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You pretty much answered your own question. If an oil does not appear in the dexos1 list, it is not dexos1 approved. Total Quartz 9000 Energy PDS can be accessed from this list.
 

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GM-LL-A-025GM approval for extended oil change intervals in petrol engines up to 30,000 km or 2 years and improved fuel economy. Meets ACEA A3/B3.

GM-LL-B-025
GM approval for long-life engine oil for diesel engines. Meets ACEA A3/B3/B4. Drain interval can be as long as 50,000 kms.

From GM's dexos™ site:

dexos™ is recommended by GM for use in all its vehicles except those with Duramax diesel engines requiring the use of API CJ-4 engine oil. dexos™ is fully backward-compatible and can be used in older vehicles.

  • dexos1™ is designed for use with gasoline engines and replaces GM-LL-A-025, GM6094M and GM4718M.
  • dexos2™ is designed for use with light-duty diesel engines and replaces GM-LL-B-025 and GM-LL-A-025.

dexos1™ approvals currently include ONLY these multi-viscosity ranges: 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30 and 5W-30.

dexos2™ approvals currently include ONLY these multi-viscosity ranges: 0W-30, 5W-30, 0W-40 and 5W-40.

So any multi-viscosity oil in the XW-40 range that previously met GM-LL-A-025 for gasoline engines, like the Mobil 1 that did, CANNOT now qualify for dexos1™ approval, which is for gasoline engines.

So, in order to make the standards truly, or at least seemingly, backwards compatible, GM had to kind of mix them up a little in the translation. Accordingly, the previously approved for gasoline engine use (GM-LL-A-025) multi-vis oils in the XW-40 ranges must now be excluded from the dexos1™ standard (which is for gasoline engines and which does not approve any XW-40 oils) and MUST be included within the dexos2™ standard for diesel engines, since only the dexos2™ standard carries approvals for oils having that multi-viscosity range.

The only thing that makes sense is that GM wanted to keep extended drain intervals AND it wanted to further incrementally increase corporate average fuel economy. Gasoline engined cars limited to 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W30 and 5W30 will get a little better fuel economy than those opting to use 0W40 and 5W40.

Once again, following GM/SAAB recommendations and approvals now is fruitless, pointless and unnecessary from a warranty standpoint for very nearly all of us. You can use a mixture of olive oil, candle wax and donkey snot now if you want, cause you ain't got no warranty if your car is out of warranty.

If your concern is the health and longevity of your engine, forget about "GM-LL" and "dexos™" and use whatever quality synthetic you want, in whatever multi-viscosity range, from 0W-30 or 5W-30 or 0W-40 or 5W-40, that meets the relevant industry performance standards (those established by API and ACEA), and change it regularly and not based upon some robotic algorithm that assumes you are using something that meets or exceeds GM-LL-A-025 (which again, is ONLY important if you are trying to avoid changing the oil more frequently than every 10,000-15,000 miles, or whenever the computer insists that you change it, whichever occurs first).

Seriously, I doubt there is any big name synthetic out there right now that is able to comply with the applicable API and ACEA standards but which would have been unable to comply with the GM-LL extended service interval requirement, had the manufacturer decided to pay for that particular proprietary approval. And, if there are some out there, it DOES NOT MATTER if you follow a set service routine like your daddy did back in the dark ages and change it around every 5,000 miles or so and write it down and do it all over again on time.

Besides, who really wants motor oil in his engine that is as black as the heart of a politician, contains more dirt than the closet of that same politician and that is clogging up that poor, teeny-tiny little fragile paper oil filter because it is so old and saturated with suspended crud and dirt? Not me, man. Fresher cleaner oil will always give more flow from the git-go.
This! +1 If you aren't interested in really long OCI's and do it regularly...then use M1, Pennzoil Ultra Euro, Castrol... ect. It doesn't matter
 

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The cars are out of warranty anyway. Use a good synthetic and change it regularly. The Obsolete GM LL specs were primarily concerned with extended drain intervals. If you don't like 0W and 5W 30 oils, there are plenty of 0W and 5W 40 oils that will perform splendidly. Just change it regularly.
OK so this makes sense to me. I change my oil every 5k anyway.

So which Mobil 1 oil should we be using? New FS 0w-40? If not, then 5w-30? 0w-30? Does it really not matter?
 

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Am I the only one who uses Rotella T6? Used it on every turbo car I've ever owned (Miata, A6 2.7t and my current 9-3). Always quiets down my lifters and comes out after 5k looking fresh.
 
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