SaabCentral Forums banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,934 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently had the opportunity to purchase a Motor sight unseen off the Bay .
Picked it up very cheap , but with little known an Auto box attached . It has been sitting around under a tarp for years , the guy I purchased it from had purchased from a wrecker many years previous . He maintains it came from a 93 Year that only had 140,000 Klms .

On collection it certainly had been removed by a wrecking yard , Nothing undone .. Just Cut .
1st observation was that it had come from a car with Lucas ( AIC was Lucas ) and it also had a TE05-12b turbo BONUS attachment ,I believe this is the Mitsubishi .

It’s the turbo that I wish to seek opinions on .

The Turbo on initial inspection had a ceased Turbine ( feeling thru Intake side ) , there was also evidence of rusty water .
I have disassemble and freed it all up . I suspect it was just mild surface rusting from exposure to the elements . I don’t believe it has water internally . The 2 large Circlips are very rusty

It all seems clean inside , Shaft and bearings appear ok , but should I kit it just as a matter of process seeing its disassembled .
I have only removed the input turbine , not the exhaust side .

If I do kit it , I presume it will not need to be rebalanced .

Input from those experienced in this type of *rebuild* or links to documents greatly appreciated .

Happy to post up Pics if anyone interested and I can work out how !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,923 Posts
Since you've taken the intake turbine off you might as well go the whole hog and take it all apart. The intake turbine is the only rotating part that separates from the rest and potentially is the part you should mark up for balancing purposes. The exhaust turbine is fixed to the shaft and does not remove. It simply withdraws from the centre cassette once you've removed the exhaust side housing.

I like the Mitsu TE05 for it's low mass, rapid spool-up characteristics, with low down accessible boost. Many guys argue that it runs out of puff at higher revs, but I don't wring the neck of my engines any more.

There are plenty of good guides for turbo rebuilding on the web. This one is for Garretts, but essentially the procedure is the same; http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...rcooler/316421-t3-turbo-rebuild-part-1-a.html

Here's also a youtube video for a Mitsu TE05;

I've done a few and it's no big deal provided you follow procedures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,934 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Since you've taken the intake turbine off you might as well go the whole hog and take it all apart. The intake turbine is the only rotating part that separates from the rest and potentially is the part you should mark up for balancing purposes. .
Thanks Peva ,
I realized that only the intake turbine comes off , I have done that and removed the shaft , bearings etc from the cassette . Leaving only the 2 little locating circlips in place.

My 1st mistake was not to mark the location of turbine to the shaft :eek: . Hoping that doesnt throw me out greatly .

The large flat surface that surrounds the Intake turbine has had water sitting on it for a long period ... One half came up immaculate with a light emery ... the other half of the plate has been submerged in water and has *grown* in parts . Fairly smooth now , but you can feel indentations and lumps with finger nail .

I dry reassembled now that its not seized and got absolutely no End float and what I would describe as minuscule Axial movement . The Brass bearings look clean .. in fact all the internals look very clean , once you get past the rust I mention around the intake .

Will see if I can easily source a kit on the bay ,

Thanks for links and You Tube .. Cheers ..much appreciated .

Re preference .. I have read your comments before re the Mitsy .. and keen to give it a try , I like the sound of quicker spool and am also past wringing the last drop at top end .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,673 Posts
Is the nut ground Aussie? I was speaking to a mate of mine who plays engineer at uni (building track cars etc) an he has a history with all things mechanical - his old man owns a chop shop. He pretty much said the rule of thumb with turbo balancing is, most can be reassembled in any position because the sides are individually balanced, but the ones that are balanced together generally have some material ground off the nut, these need to be scribed before disassembly, failing that - professionally balanced.

Obviously if the exhaust or compressor impellers are damaged at all in any way it should have a re-balance. In saying that I think an unbalanced turbo will still work, it won't last though, and as a guess I would think the axial loading would probably damage the shaft where the bearings ride.

Peva can probably confirm/refute this :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,923 Posts
Obviously if the exhaust or compressor impellers are damaged at all in any way it should have a re-balance. In saying that I think an unbalanced turbo will still work, it won't last though, and as a guess I would think the axial loading would probably damage the shaft where the bearings ride.
Yes, you;re right. Should have possibly marked up before stripping, but it's not the end of the world. If there's no material ground off, which is very obvious, you can normally re-assemble in any position. If the bearings are very worn and turbines and casing show signs of contact, if would be a good idea to get a turbo shop to balance it for you. With luck you'll avoid this.

No end float is a good sign. This is potentially more damaging to turbo than axial play. Since it's now apart you might as well go for a rebuild with new bearings and seals. Plenty available on the net or eBay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,934 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, you;re right. Should have possibly marked up before stripping, but it's not the end of the world. If there's no material ground off, which is very obvious, you can normally re-assemble in any position. If the bearings are very worn and turbines and casing show signs of contact, if would be a good idea to get a turbo shop to balance it for you. With luck you'll avoid this.
Thanks Guys , can confirm the Compressor Turbine nut has been untouched ,
Its was also very clean and fresh looking .. as are the Brass bearings .
Absolutely no damage to either Turbine or any indication of contacting at either end
I have absolutely no doubt this was a Good turbo .. The axial is the least I have ever seen . The only hard life this has had is rain water ...

Half tempted to throw it back together and just try it out , it certainly isn't a big task disassembling .
The other confusion I am finding is that all the searches I do on the kits ( TE05-12B) come back with results , but when you drill down into those it references TD series ... and with no refernce to the Manufacturers number of 49184 , they all appear to be 49178 or 49179 .
Perhaps I am reading to pedantically and they are the same ;ol;

Sample if interested
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Turbo-Re...12B-/220989590832?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,923 Posts
From what you say I would be inclined to throw it all back together after a bit of a clean if this looks necessary. The parts kit looks fine. It's not unusual to find different part numbers as long as your particular model is specified. These kits normally contain more parts than you need for one specific turbo because they are designed to be suitable for several different model variations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,934 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
From what you say I would be inclined to throw it all back together after a bit of a clean if this looks necessary. The parts kit looks fine. It's not unusual to find different part numbers as long as your particular model is specified. These kits normally contain more parts than you need for one specific turbo because they are designed to be suitable for several different model variations.
I studied that You tube carefully ... Nothing there that I hadn't really already figured, but it was a good watch from a reassurance perspective ... He certainly dragged it out tho :D

The one thing that did stand out was the oil seal at the base of the shaft ( exhaust side wheel ) ( the start of part 2 ) There was a very positive engagement when he reinserted the shaft into the cassette ..with that seal clunking home so to speak .

I did not get that feel at all when I dry reassembled .. I will revisit that seal and make sure its there and its receptacle clean and undamaged .


Understand what you say re the parts kit ... However it does not list my model (TE series) .. Just TD variants ..

As discussed I might clean carefully .. Lube and reassemble and try it on a car ... No real harm done if i find issues ... In the meantime a kit can be on its way and I will have a good future rebuild ready .
Thanks heaps for your help , advise ... The You tube was good value .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,923 Posts
The one thing that did stand out was the oil seal at the base of the shaft ( exhaust side wheel ) ( the start of part 2 ) There was a very positive engagement when he reinserted the shaft into the cassette ..with that seal clunking home so to speak .
There should be no clunking home of the exhaust side seal. As you probably see it's like a little piston ring that sits in a groove on the shaft. The seal bore in the exhaust side oil cavity should be parallel and the seal should just slide in. Maybe on the video the seal had worn a recess within the bore causing the slight clunk. No reason why it should.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,934 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
There should be no clunking home of the exhaust side seal. As you probably see it's like a little piston ring that sits in a groove on the shaft. The seal bore in the exhaust side oil cavity should be parallel and the seal should just slide in. Maybe on the video the seal had worn a recess within the bore causing the slight clunk. No reason why it should.
That makes me feel better , as there was no real *feel* when I dry reasembled ... the one on the Video was being repaired due to an oil leak from that area ( turbine was oil soaked ) so perhaps his issue was more than the seal itself .

What you have said ...and what Jamen has said re Xavier is making me more convinced to clean , lube assemble and try ... Thanks Guys .

Will update when its had a run ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,934 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,673 Posts
Does moly dissolve in oil though?

I know modern moly doesn't dissolve well in petrol without a lot of brush work. I think the moly grease I have has a lot of additives in it to make it pretty tough!?

I would just stay safe with an assembly lube, but what do I know :cheesy: you've assembled more engines than me!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,934 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Does moly dissolve in oil though?

I know modern moly doesn't dissolve well in petrol without a lot of brush work. I think the moly grease I have has a lot of additives in it to make it pretty tough!?

I would just stay safe with an assembly lube, but what do I know :cheesy: you've assembled more engines than me!
assembly is one thing .. starting them is another :D

You are probably right .. being a tight A .. will just use a lot of wd40 ...thats good for everything !

Joking people ... Joking ... I will get some Assembly lube !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,923 Posts
I am thinking I could even use a good grease on reassembly (moly) , as it will be washed away once oil pressure and heat obtained ..
Just use engine oil. Then when it's on the car, pour engine oil into the oil hole before connecting the oil pipe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,934 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
hiccup on reassembly ... Shaft thread is stripped at Intake turbine.. its the shaft thread itself , the nut appears new , which I think I referenced earlier in the thread .

The is not a virginal attempt it seems .. and the previous attempt has well and Truly .. ummm...

Couldn't get 1 ft inches let alone 100 ... I realized and inspected thread closely Burred at the business end ..

I Did manage to double nut it and obtain torque ... but no doubt this would throw balance way out ..so I abandoned the idea ..

I have a mate who is a brilliant fitter/toolmaker and could lathe cut a new (different ) thread size ..

The other thing that stood out to me tonight.. The thread was not Opposite to normal .. it was standard clockwise to tighten . This would suggest the Turbine would be wanting to loosen as oppose tighten with its rotation direction .

Options ? opinions ?
HELP :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,673 Posts
What torque were you trying to apply Aussie?

18-20 INCH pounds isn't that the normal torque? don't think it should have been anywhere near 100?

I would just buy a new shaft/turbine assembly from ebay, $100 or so. But if you have someone who can repair the threads sufficiently........ I personally wouldn't trust them, if they failed you'd have the turbo fall apart contact the housing and basically implode into your engine.

If you did get it lathe cut,I think the different nut and loss of material would change the balance, as the exhaust turbine which is bound to the shaft would have been balanced as one unit I think (shaft + turbine), as would the compressor turbine . For this reason I think the only work around is a new shaft + exhaust turbine, you can use your current compressor turbine and slap it all back together and it should theoretically be in balance.

Is there a chance you tried to undo it anti clockwise and stripped the thread on disassembly, if the thread was already stripped then the turbo would have been sketchy as before disassembly? Did you need much torque to undo it, or did the nut basically fall off?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,923 Posts
Sounds as though you've buggered it. It doesn't need that much torque and the thread is not left hand. It's not going to undo. Your wheel nuts don't undo on the wrong side. I suppose it would be possible to cut a new thread but I'm not sure I'd trust it, but you would need to get it balanced. If you have a turbo rebuilder near you they may be able to sell you a used shaft or advise on the thread. It can't be the first time this has happened.

As S900t8v suggests, look for a new shaft with exhaust turbine, or buy a scrap turbo and hope the shaft is OK.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top