SaabCentral Forums banner

21 - 34 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,901 Posts
The box isn't in any way "engine specific". It's the fuel and/or ignition map - which you program into it with the megasquirt software and a laptop - that's engine specific.
Thats not quite correct - there are a few different types of engine position sensors that can be used, and different types of ignition coil.
Right now the box is going to be configured to work with a crank sensor. You could setup a crank sensor on the 900, or you could get the megasquirt changed to work with the hall sensor on the 900. Possibly best to leave it as is, and fit a crank trigger wheel to the 900, because ultimately you'll end up with a better ignition system. The forums at www.msextra.com are a great resource of information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,901 Posts
I can upload base maps for 16v turbo. I take no responsibility for people using them on cars with different configurations without checking first.

This one is for ms1-extra, standard distributor and coil and ignition module, hall sensor ignition.
Engine was standard at this point, Te05 turbo.

This is the full msq file. I'll try and extract the fuel map separately and post that.

http://philb.syndicate7.net/megasquirt200805242142.msq

Same engine configuration, but on ms2-extra

http://philb.syndicate7.net/megasquirt/megasquirt200904041239.msq

Safe timing map, with stock retard at full boost, extra advance on cruise. I think this is for ms2-extra, but it would be easy
to adapt it for ms1-extra. ( less rows, less resolution )



I will post more up to date maps when I have a chance, but its best to make a start I suppose :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,478 Posts
okay, i am a little confused....

having a look at this: http://msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_Miss_Tooth.htm

i have set my MS up for COP, wasted spark. (plus fuelling)
reading through how to set up a 36-1 trigger wheel i see that the tooth angle is set at 80 degrees.. my question is, why?
can i not just set the missing tooth to be aligned with the VR sensor with the engine at TDC? or is the tooth angle necessary for correct timing while cranking?
(i know 80 degrees is way too much advance, but if tooth angle was crucial to cranking advance then 10 degrees of tooth angle would make sense)

yes, i am new to the megasquirt crowd, please be patient with me :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,237 Posts
okay, i am a little confused....

having a look at this: http://msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_Miss_Tooth.htm

i have set my MS up for COP, wasted spark. (plus fuelling)
reading through how to set up a 36-1 trigger wheel i see that the tooth angle is set at 80 degrees.. my question is, why?
can i not just set the missing tooth to be aligned with the VR sensor with the engine at TDC? or is the tooth angle necessary for correct timing while cranking?
(i know 80 degrees is way too much advance, but if tooth angle was crucial to cranking advance then 10 degrees of tooth angle would make sense)

yes, i am new to the megasquirt crowd, please be patient with me :lol:
Setting up the sensor and the trigger wheel is sometime a bit tough to wrap your head around. This parameter is sometimes called the "crank (shaft) reference angle". As the engine is turning the ECU recognizes the pulses of the 36 teeth. It also see the missing tooth due to its elongated signal. Now you input how many teeth or degrees it needs to count until cyl 1 is at TDC. from there the ECU knows where TDC is and it calculated when to spark based off your value in the ignition map's corresponding RPM and load cell.

FYI, Saab's T5.5 crank ref angle is 117*. 60-2 wheel. The sensor sits on tooth 20 upstream of the missing when at TDC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
tunerstudio msq

Does anyone have have a msq for tuner studio sofware?



I can upload base maps for 16v turbo. I take no responsibility for people using them on cars with different configurations without checking first.

This one is for ms1-extra, standard distributor and coil and ignition module, hall sensor ignition.
Engine was standard at this point, Te05 turbo.

This is the full msq file. I'll try and extract the fuel map separately and post that.

http://philb.syndicate7.net/megasquirt200805242142.msq

Same engine configuration, but on ms2-extra

http://philb.syndicate7.net/megasquirt/megasquirt200904041239.msq

Safe timing map, with stock retard at full boost, extra advance on cruise. I think this is for ms2-extra, but it would be easy
to adapt it for ms1-extra. ( less rows, less resolution )



I will post more up to date maps when I have a chance, but its best to make a start I suppose :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Fuel pump relay

Ok, I have the MS Ign working well with the lh in control of the fuel, but everytime I hook up the fuel the relay buzzes. Did the d7 to r32 short. and followed Keith G instructions for the PNP harness.

Any help on this one would be appreciated.

92t 900 lh2.4

TIA
John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Mods, please sticky!

My Bosch LH 2.2 to MS1 v2.2 Installation (Fuel only)

Introduction:
-I had my a/f ratio checked on a dyno, and the JSP stage II chip and trionic redtop injectors simply weren't delivering enough fuel. The decision was made to switch to standalone. This is a recollection of my progress, in which I gathered all parts in advance and spent a week off of work installing the system. Best vacation ever ;-)

Parts List:
-This is a list of parts I purchased for the installation, the price (USD) and where applicable, the source.

2.1L Throttle Body====================================Saabeh================$50
Laptop - owned
LH - MS Connector===================================PaulH=================$200
Intake Air Temp Sensor================================eEuro=================$50
IAT Bung===========================================Junkyard==============$5
MegaSquirt-I Programmable EFI System PCB2.2 w/MS-Extra======DIYAUTOTUNE===========$240
4.0 Bar MAP Sensor===================================DIYAUTOTUNE===========$65
DB9 - USB Cable======================================DIYAUTOTUNE===========$20
Innovate Wideband O2================================NoLimitMotorsport==========$179

*Note: I ordered the MS box with EDIS mods & 4-bar map sensor pre-installed.

Installation:
1) Installing Injectors:
I began by installing my new injectors. They are 60lb/hr Siemens Deka injectors, that are good for over 400bhp. No way on earth could the JSP chip run these. They plug in just like stock.

2) Installing Wideband:
I purchased the Innovate LC-1 wideband controller from NoLimitMotorsport for $179, best deal on-the-net. I had previously welded an o2 bung in my downpipe for the wideband. The sensors are sensitive to heat, so it's recommended to mount them further away from the turbo. Mine is down about two feet from the turbo, in front of the passenger CV. The sensor screws in like a normal o2 sensor and uses the same size bung as stock. Make sure and pull back the passenger side carpet, because the wiring is going to be fed down directly to where the ECU sits. I routed the 02 wiring under the cool-air vent (the controller plug-in sits under there) and through the passenger-side inner fender (where the stock harness feeds through). I had to remove the white vacuum bottle to access this area. From here, there is a rubber shielding that protects the cabin from moisture, etc. Feed the wires from the controller through here (I used a coat hanger & scotch tape) and into the cabin. Solder the Blue & White wire together, and connect it to a good chassis ground. The Red wire goes to 12v keyed hot, I spliced it into where the ECU itself gets power (more on that later). The Brown wire is the actual wideband signal - this will go to the ECU. More on that later.

3) Installing Throttle Body:
-Simply unbolt the old one, and bolt up the new one. I didn't use a throttle dashpot or cruise control switching. You may find that there aren't places for the different vacuum hoses like your old TB - might have to get creative here. Check out the TB before you buy and make sure it has the correct number of vac nipples you need. The TPS plugs in just like the old one, no modifications here.

4) Installing MAP sensor line:
-Another simple one here folks. Run a vacuum line from the manifold to where the ECU is going to go. At the same time, remove and plug the large vac hose from the manifold to the charcoal canister. MS doesn't control it and you'll get a funny idle.


5) Installing Intake Air Temp sensor (IAT):
-MS uses an intake air temp sensor, mine is from a '92 9000 turbo. You must get a bung for this (DIYAutotune has them) or get one from a saab IC pipe (they're pressed in, with a little force they pop right out). With this, you need to weld the bung (jb weld might work) onto your IC pipe. As close to the throttle body as is convenient. Mine was aluminum welded at the same time as my BOV flange. DO NOT simply thread the IC pipe, the walls are too thin and you won't get enough "bite" for the sensor to screw in. After that, it must be wired up. Two wires go out from the sensor, one ground and one to the MS box. I grounded the sensor at the head with the other grounds. I ran the other wire into the cabin right along the stock harness, through the inner fender, etc. You get the idea.



6) Modifying the MS box for use with a Bosch c900:
-There is one hardware mod done to the box to get it to work. It's the fuel pump circuit mod. It's pretty simple - on the MS board, lift the LEFT leg of D7 and connect it to the LOWER leg of R32. That is all.


7) Installing the MS box:
-Here's where IronJoe takes a HUGE shortcut. I purchased a MS to LH adapter from PaulH on the boards. It was well worth the money. PM him (or me) for details. The MS box clips into the adapter which is built from an old Bosch ecu. The adapter then plugs right into the stock harness plug. From there, I just soldered the wideband wire and the IAT wire (which he provided leads) to the adapter. Then it was a matter of splicing into the 12v for the wideband controller, which was done in the adapter as well. Then just plug in the vac hose to the map sensor line and you're ready to go!



8) Installing software on your PC:
-Head over to DIYAutoTune and download their software suite. No-brainer install. Make sure you have a DB9 serial - USB connector cable. You'll need it for the next step:


9) Loading MS with firmware:
-I needed the MS HiRes code for my huge injectors. I downloaded it from Keith's googlepages site and followed the directions included in the zip file. This needs to be done with the key ON and your laptop hooked up to MS. Use the DB9-USB serial cable.


10) Setting up MegaTune:
-If you can find a base map from someone, use it. This will make life EASY. Here's the story - open the megatune configurator and click on MegaTune 2.25. Highlight the version of MS extra, hires etc that you're going to use (should show up if you followed all the directions for loading firmware) and highlight it, then click File -> Activate. Then go ahead and create a project with a name you'll remember (Project -> New). Now navigate to your project, click the + next to the name, and the + next to settings.ini, and the + next to Settings. I used MSnS Extra as my code variant. I needed to set my Lambda sensor to Innovate LC-1 default, and set my MAP_SENSOR variable to MPXH6400A - which is the 4 bar map sensor (crazy boost).

-Now, save & close the configurator. Double-click your MSQ file (base map) from where you have it saved, and when Megatune opens choose your configured project name. From here, you're almost ready. Go to Basic Settings -> Engine Constants 1. Click on Required Fuel... and punch in your displacement (1985), Number of cylinders (4), Injector flow (what size injectors you're using) and Air-Fuel Ratio (14.7) and click OK. Click Burn To ECU and believe it or not, you're ready to try starting it!

11) Starting the car:
-Make sure you have plenty of battery power. That means a jumper battery, a spare, a charger, whatever. You may be cranking for a while ;-). Hook up MS and key on, make sure you're getting readings like coolant temp, IAT, etc. If the car doesn't start, you run the risk of flooding it if you've got big injectors. This caused me to constantly pull the fuel pump fuse and spin the motor over with the plugs removed to dry out the combustion chambers. I ended up fouling the plugs and had to get new ones. Try starting it up.

Hey I'm trying to convert my N/a 2.1 B212 to ms do I still need an iat sensor?
 
21 - 34 of 34 Posts
Top