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Discussion Starter #1
...otherwise come October I would be driving a IS350 with AWD! :eek:

Just saw it live at the NYC car show and all I got to say is ... WOW!

If the resale value on my '03 Vector wasn't pi$$-poor it would make it all the more enticing to go for the IS.

Say all you want about the "generic" Japanese styling, the allure of all that tech, a good looking interior, and famed Lexus customer treatment and reliability make it a car that is worth craving. The car just "reeks" of quality.

Oh well, I guess I'll continue enjoy my Vector.
 

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All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Seduced by the tasteless Japanese clones. You don't deserve to be in our ranks.

I'm just joking. Kind of.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
NineThreer said:
All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Seduced by the tasteless Japanese clones. You don't deserve to be in our ranks.

I'm just joking. Kind of.
Hmmm, nothing wrong with wanting a car that outdoes your own (my own) in (almost) every respect.

1. reliability : Lexus > Saab
2. technology : Lexus > Saab
3. Sound System : Lexus > Saab
4. Interior quality : Lexus > Saab
5. External Look : Lexus = Saab
6. Fun to drive factor : ?
7. Resale Value: Lexus > Saab
8. Safety: Saab > Lexus

If we were talking a Honda Accord here, I would understand. But a Lexus has taken the IS to a level where not only is it an improved car, but downright desireable. Hey, just because I own a Saab (and enjoy it) doesn't mean that other cars aren't desireable (especially Japanese ones).

I never had an die-hard alligance to any one particular car company. I figure that variety is the spice of life. During my lifetime (and if I am lucky enough) I would like experience many different automobiles. :)
 

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I saw it too at the NYC show and it's really nice BUT, it's the Lexus branding I have a problem with. It does not say fine European sedan. It says another Honda/Toyota with really nice leather interior and Japaneses handling. I like the new A4 better and will be looking to get rid of my Vector this fall for one.
 

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cpufixer1 said:
I saw it too at the NYC show and it's really nice BUT, it's the Lexus branding I have a problem with. It does not say fine European sedan. It says another Honda/Toyota with really nice leather interior and Japaneses handling. I like the new A4 better and will be looking to get rid of my Vector this fall for one.
Plus it will be riced. This could be a positive or negative depending on your tastes.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Roddemp said:
Plus it will be riced. This could be a positive or negative depending on your tastes.
I am not so sure about that. Most of the current IS models I see look factory.
 

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JNGold said:
If we were talking a Honda Accord here, I would understand. But a Lexus has taken the IS to a level where not only is it an improved car, but downright desireable. Hey, just because I own a Saab (and enjoy it) doesn't mean that other cars aren't desireable (especially Japanese ones).

I never had an die-hard alligance to any one particular car company. I figure that variety is the spice of life. During my lifetime (and if I am lucky enough) I would like experience many different automobiles. :)
I agree. Variety can be great. That's why you go for the IS. Every few years you're guaranteed a car that looks nothing like its predecessor yet has a little bit of everything from everyone else. They've mastered BMW's "hofmeister kink", looks like they're borrowing some Audi rear end styling tips as well. Oh, and the slabs of plastic chrome. Now that's classy. If you want to make a driving enthusiast feel like he's in a quality machine, surround him with plastic but shiny "wood" trim and plastic chrome on the gear shift. Pop in a generic Japanese engine. Put in a nice stereo. And as Lexus likes to advertise, put a huge massive red bow on it and it's the perfect.....fashion accessory. No other "premium" car manufacturer tries more than Lexus. Their "feature" lists can barely fit on the window sticker as the massive army of Japanese engineer-spies scour the factories of Europe. Ironic that something that seemingly seems "perfect" is in fact far from it. Of course you can always retreat into the tight knit community of Lexus owners......oh I forgot, that's peopled by soccer moms with RX's, retirees with their mini-fridge equipped LS's, people who are genuinely afraid of the world (LS and GS drivers) so much that they must make themselves feel superior by parading around in behemoth luxury assault vehicles, of course you'll quickly make friends with the ES drivers --- they almost bought an Aztek but decided it was too conventional looking, so instead they bought a Toyota Avalon that is so ugly it actually makes the people behind the wheel look semi-decent, and of course, let's not forget the SC....the dumb-blonde princess mobile designed to cart you around from the Prada boutique to the Coach shop down the street, rain or shine. All this from a marque that has been in existence for less time than certain models from other manufacturers have been around.

BMW 3-series owners aren't exactly individualists either. But those who actually buy the car for its amazing handling and reputable engineering are easy to respect. Lexus owners however are solely interested in comparing stereo wattage, square meters of chrome/wood trim and how many restaurants are available in their navigation systems. These are some of the most boring cars in the world. They are driven by people no different.

You can complain all night and day about your 9-3. But you'll never get to feel like you're a part of something more than just the sell-out consumerism-driven marketing campaign that constitues Lexus. Just thinking about the IS, Lexus, and what all of it stands for makes me want to throw up knowing that people are being taken over by some Japanese corporate giant that's running out of space to stuff its cash and will soon resort to releasing special edition cars with built in ATM machines linking to credit card accounts run by their subsidiary.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
NineThreer said:
You can complain all night and day about your 9-3. But you'll never get to feel like you're a part of something more than just the sell-out consumerism-driven marketing campaign that constitues Lexus. Just thinking about the IS, Lexus, and what all of it stands for makes me want to throw up knowing that people are being taken over by some Japanese corporate giant that's running out of space to stuff its cash and will soon resort to releasing special edition cars with built in ATM machines linking to credit card accounts run by their subsidiary.
And what's happening to Saab is any better? :nono; I would say it's downright pathetic. All I need to say is take a good hard look at the 9-2 and 9-7. Nuff said.

If there is a 9-3 in 3-4 year time-span, I would be very surprised. In fact, the next 9-3 will be more Cadillac than Saab. Talk about Consumerism and a conglomerate company? Sheesh!

It doesn't matter if a car is Japanese or German, or Ameri-Swedish. What matters is that a car gives a good feeling when you are behind the wheel.

A car that is fun to drive bundled with a reliability factor that can't be beat - who cares if commercialism rear it's ugly head?
 

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JNGold,

IS350...Cute car. No stick shift. End of story. Not for me :nono;

You know I love you man...but find me something with a manual transmission. Then we can talk about whether it stacks up to the Saab. :cool:
 

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NineThreer said:
I agree. Variety can be great. That's why you go for the IS. Every few years you're guaranteed a car that looks nothing like its predecessor yet has a little bit of everything from everyone else. They've mastered BMW's "hofmeister kink", looks like they're borrowing some Audi rear end styling tips as well. Oh, and the slabs of plastic chrome. Now that's classy. If you want to make a driving enthusiast feel like he's in a quality machine, surround him with plastic but shiny "wood" trim and plastic chrome on the gear shift. Pop in a generic Japanese engine. Put in a nice stereo. And as Lexus likes to advertise, put a huge massive red bow on it and it's the perfect.....fashion accessory. No other "premium" car manufacturer tries more than Lexus. Their "feature" lists can barely fit on the window sticker as the massive army of Japanese engineer-spies scour the factories of Europe. Ironic that something that seemingly seems "perfect" is in fact far from it. Of course you can always retreat into the tight knit community of Lexus owners......oh I forgot, that's peopled by soccer moms with RX's, retirees with their mini-fridge equipped LS's, people who are genuinely afraid of the world (LS and GS drivers) so much that they must make themselves feel superior by parading around in behemoth luxury assault vehicles, of course you'll quickly make friends with the ES drivers --- they almost bought an Aztek but decided it was too conventional looking, so instead they bought a Toyota Avalon that is so ugly it actually makes the people behind the wheel look semi-decent, and of course, let's not forget the SC....the dumb-blonde princess mobile designed to cart you around from the Prada boutique to the Coach shop down the street, rain or shine. All this from a marque that has been in existence for less time than certain models from other manufacturers have been around.

BMW 3-series owners aren't exactly individualists either. But those who actually buy the car for its amazing handling and reputable engineering are easy to respect. Lexus owners however are solely interested in comparing stereo wattage, square meters of chrome/wood trim and how many restaurants are available in their navigation systems. These are some of the most boring cars in the world. They are driven by people no different.

You can complain all night and day about your 9-3. But you'll never get to feel like you're a part of something more than just the sell-out consumerism-driven marketing campaign that constitues Lexus. Just thinking about the IS, Lexus, and what all of it stands for makes me want to throw up knowing that people are being taken over by some Japanese corporate giant that's running out of space to stuff its cash and will soon resort to releasing special edition cars with built in ATM machines linking to credit card accounts run by their subsidiary.
can i kiss your feet? buy you a drink? that was brilliant...

i wouldn't have said it myself, but you make so many good points.

however... i have also been swooned by the lexi (lexus in plural, get it?;) ) as i sat in an ls430 and an is300 at a car show, i was thoroughly impressed by both and came away wanting an IS.... sad, i know :cry:


oh, i've got a little quote to light everybody's fire. it's found in the May 2005 issue of Car and Driver on page 37.

"Saab's 9-7x sport ute, built on the same platform as the chevrolet trailblazer, is set to go on sale this month. the body-on-frame mid-size 9-7x will be the only Saab SUV in showrooms for a couple of years until the swedish automaker's car-based unibody SUV, now dubbed the 9-5x, shows up in 2007. Some time back, word had it that the car-based sport ute would be called the 9-6x and would be based on Subaru's B9 Tribeca, but it seems the Japanese platform was dismissed because it would have required too many modifications to adapt a diesel engine necessary for Europe (the 9-7x will only be sold in the U.S.). Therefore, Saab will build the 9-5x on the GM Theta platform that underpins the Saturn Vue and Chevrolet Equinox and Pontiac's upcoming Torrent, due this fall.

"A four-cylinder turbo diesel engine will come from Italian maker VM Motori for use in the Saab, Opel, and Vauxhall versions of the SUV, although plans for importing the diesel to the States seem unlikely. Don't be surprised if the 9-5x is built in a Daewoo plant in Korea".

"Swedish sacrilege? Perhaps, but Saab is trying hard to stay competitive by cutting production, development, and currency costs."

so there you have it. Saab has now sunk to the level GM has always wanted it at. cars will be produced in Korea, alongside the exceptional (gag me please) Chevrolet Aveo.

goodbye, saab.:cry:
 

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NineThreer said:
I agree. Variety can be great. That's why you go for the IS. Every few years you're guaranteed a car that looks nothing like its predecessor yet has a little bit of everything from everyone else. They've mastered BMW's "hofmeister kink", looks like they're borrowing some Audi rear end styling tips as well. Oh, and the slabs of plastic chrome. Now that's classy. If you want to make a driving enthusiast feel like he's in a quality machine, surround him with plastic but shiny "wood" trim and plastic chrome on the gear shift. Pop in a generic Japanese engine. Put in a nice stereo. And as Lexus likes to advertise, put a huge massive red bow on it and it's the perfect.....fashion accessory. No other "premium" car manufacturer tries more than Lexus. Their "feature" lists can barely fit on the window sticker as the massive army of Japanese engineer-spies scour the factories of Europe. Ironic that something that seemingly seems "perfect" is in fact far from it. Of course you can always retreat into the tight knit community of Lexus owners......oh I forgot, that's peopled by soccer moms with RX's, retirees with their mini-fridge equipped LS's, people who are genuinely afraid of the world (LS and GS drivers) so much that they must make themselves feel superior by parading around in behemoth luxury assault vehicles, of course you'll quickly make friends with the ES drivers --- they almost bought an Aztek but decided it was too conventional looking, so instead they bought a Toyota Avalon that is so ugly it actually makes the people behind the wheel look semi-decent, and of course, let's not forget the SC....the dumb-blonde princess mobile designed to cart you around from the Prada boutique to the Coach shop down the street, rain or shine. All this from a marque that has been in existence for less time than certain models from other manufacturers have been around.

BMW 3-series owners aren't exactly individualists either. But those who actually buy the car for its amazing handling and reputable engineering are easy to respect. Lexus owners however are solely interested in comparing stereo wattage, square meters of chrome/wood trim and how many restaurants are available in their navigation systems. These are some of the most boring cars in the world. They are driven by people no different.

You can complain all night and day about your 9-3. But you'll never get to feel like you're a part of something more than just the sell-out consumerism-driven marketing campaign that constitues Lexus. Just thinking about the IS, Lexus, and what all of it stands for makes me want to throw up knowing that people are being taken over by some Japanese corporate giant that's running out of space to stuff its cash and will soon resort to releasing special edition cars with built in ATM machines linking to credit card accounts run by their subsidiary.
post of the century. bravo.

not only am i in total agreement, your writing style is phenomenal. go work for automobile mag so i can be entertained on the toilet more often!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Topspin14 said:
JNGold,

IS350...Cute car. No stick shift. End of story. Not for me :nono;

You know I love you man...but find me something with a manual transmission. Then we can talk about whether it stacks up to the Saab. :cool:
Both IS250's have a 2.5-litre V6 engine that can produce upward of 200-horsepower. The IS350 houses a newly-designed, dual VVT-i 3.5-litre V6 that produces more than 300-horsepower. They can be mated to either a six-speed manual or six-speed automatic tranmission.
while the 2.5-liter, gasoline V-6 also features direct injection and pumps out 204 hp and 184 lb-ft. Both engines can be mated to a six-speed manual transmission, and the V-6 is also available with a six-speed manu-matic.
Is it time to talk yet? :lol:
 

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hmm...hmm....hmm...

I was very much interested in the Lexus IS300, BMW 320i/325i, Audi A4 and Acura TSX for that matter before I settled for the Saab. I don't regret it at all. What I am interested in seeing in the future for Saab is an AWD system that is comparable against the A4.

Otherwise, on my family, you will see an A4 in the future and a Saab Convertible for summer fun. I will always have a Saab in the family, but the A4 can't be beat with is Quattro system.

I tried the '06 A4 FrontTrak over the weekend as my mom is looking for a new car and I say that I was impressed. The Quattro must be all the better as we were driving in the wet/sleet stuff.

Anyways...do as you wish JNGold? But, one thing I will not be swayed on is the styling of the '04+ Saab 9-3 Convertible....nothing beats that and it will be in my family one of these days...

Paul
 

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I have to take JNGold's side on this discussion.

Lexus makes awesome cars, and that's the reason they're everywhere.

I love the 9-3 but I wish I had more than 5 choices in wheels, 3 choices in exhaust, and one or two for computer upgrades.

Having said this, I plan to have my car for at least another 3-4 years, but who knows.
 

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JNGold said:
Is it time to talk yet? :lol:
If they actually come out with the stick shift. I know it can be mated but from what I read the US is NOT getting a manual transmission. If I am wrong then I apologize and since I probably have to sell my Saab might look into the IS350 next time around.
 
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