[Si]

Started lining it up to sort out the pipework, got a bit more work to do finishing off the intercooler and welding the pipework.

Then i've just got to mount the headlights/spotlights i'm going to be using as won't be able to fit the usual lights back in!

 

[saab90089]

I say just leave it they way it is :lol: .............just hook up the pipes for the intake.....that suckah won't go anywhere :lol: .

Seriously tho looking like the project is well underway.

Ian

 

[ejenner]

is that "turbo" pipe from the 8v turbo installation? if so are you worried about the diameter of the pipe or are you just thinking about hooking it up like that on a temporary basis?

don't get the impression that I know any more than you do - I'm just asking?


Regards..

 

[Si]

pipes

I'm using 3 sets of standard T8/T16 aluminium intercooling piping, cut down to accomodate the new position and welded (I'll end up with polished aluminium piping) .

It was a concern but it will be easier to weld as the pipeworks quite thick, + it's free!!! (apart from weld)

It's only the first run, if it all goes together and works as it's supposed to i'll prob give it another go with 2" or 2 1/2" stainless steel tubing, then either buy an intercooler that will fit in the same position, maybe one slightly longer if i can find a good fit.

 

[Orca]

The bore of the cast pipes from a T8 (and some T16s) is 40mm. The outlet from the TB0357 is 40mm (T8) and TB0358 is 45mm (T16s ... and some T8s). I'm not sure what the bore off the Mistubishi turbo is. It's not going to be restrictive, as such.

 

[ejenner]

I don't know what the mm's are but the TE05 equiped T16's have much larger aluminum tubes for the intercooler.

 

[Orca]

Indeed, they are. The Mistubishi turbos tended to have a larger outlet (say, 50mm plus), however it looks like Si is fitting that intercooler to a T8, which would be running a Garrett turbo. I might, of course, be wrong. As you say, if it is a later turbo and/or a later car, then the wider bore pipes would be very much worth using.

 

[ejenner]

couldn't hurt whatever tho.. ?

 

[Si]

piping

Yea, it's a T8 with Garrett oil cooled turbo, I've got a Garrett Water/Oil cooled aswell but there was a bit of play in the shaft so I used the older one.

It's been a few years since i studied fluid dynamics etc so I may be wrong but I figured that the volume of the inlet pipes & intercooler would affect the lag.

I'm kinda guessing that the larger the volume between the turbo and inlet the longer it would take to pressurise to full boost, so although wider bore pipeing my help flow it would take longer to pressurise.
I guess it's a matter of balancing the 2, and ofcourse the bore of the inlet to the intercooler would also be a restricting factor aswell.

As the intercoolers effectively twice the volume of the normal one and the pipework will be longer than standard i did'nt want to sacrifice too much time to reach full boost over better cooling potential.

If I get round to it i may try some experiments using a water resevoir draining through the new intercooler, then do the same with a standard one and see the difference it the time it takes for say 20 litres to flow through.

Anyway I've just soaked the piping over night so gotta go and clean them all now and carry on cutting, may tack them together today aswell if i get round to it.

I only put the engine in on friday night so got a bit more work to do reconnecting that up aswell. Buisy few days ahead:cheesy: !

 

[Orca]

I'm kinda guessing that the larger the volume between the turbo and inlet the longer it would take to pressurise to full boost, so although wider bore pipeing my help flow it would take longer to pressurise.

I guess it's a matter of balancing the 2, and ofcourse the bore of the inlet to the intercooler would also be a restricting factor aswell.

I think you're right there. The inlet/outlet of the standard intercooler is 60mm, but it looks like you're mating to the full 76mm bore of the wide end of the cast elbow pipe.

 

[gorper]

Started lining it up to sort out the pipework, got a bit more work to do finishing off the intercooler and welding the pipework.

Then i've just got to mount the headlights/spotlights i'm going to be using as won't be able to fit the usual lights back in!

Clever DIY. How did you remove the baffles in the middle of each endtank?

 

[Si]

DIY Intercooler

Turn's out making the intercooler was the easy bit, pipe work is much more fun!

Firstly I bent back the aluminium tabs holding the plastic caps in place and removed them.

Then I cut the top and bottom end caps in half so that I could re-joint them with only 1 inlet in each, i've used liquid metal to stick the 2 half's back together. I had to do a bit of sanding to flatten the caps so that they fitted back onto the intercoolers, then using a pair of grips and a hammer knocked the tabs back around the caps.

To join the intercoolers I bent the tabs back in on themselves on one end of each intercooler then lined the two up so that the passages were in line and with no gap. The using aluminium mig wire and argon gas shield I welded the 2 together using the tabs as they all lined up, then the gaps have been filled in.

To finish it off I'll either use Fibre Glass resin or Liquid Metal around the end caps and the centre section which should seal it up/reinforce it.

Before using it I'm going to try and test it using a pressure brake bleed kit and a spare tyre set to about 15-20psi.

The problem with welding aluminium is it tends to produce alot of loose bits so i had to be carefull not to get any stuck between the weld and the passages, i did'nt want bits being drawn into the engine so i just welded it so it was solid,then filled the gaps, it also gave me an opportunity to shake out any loose bits after welding.

If it works I'll prob replace it with something like this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7977531210&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
and get new piping made up for it, i should be able to find a local company that can suppy/bend it to the right shape.

I was planning on a head light conversion anyway so it kinda fit's in with what i've got in mind.

PS - suffering from insomnia at the mo so that's why i'm posting @ 2am!!!!!

 

[Si]

2nd Test Run

Thought i'd revive this rather than diverting another post.

Quickly this is what i've done :

Taken 2 standard saab 15 channel intercoolers, removed the caps, welded them together so that the passages are lined up, changed the end caps so that they only have 1 entrance and fitted one on either end.

I've prefabbed some 2" stst piping to run from the compressor outlet around the radiator to the intercooler(passing through where the headlights sit) then from the otherside round to the throttle housing.


I took the car out again today this time for a longer run, i had to take it easy most of the way cos of other issues but i had a few little burns to see what it felt like.

From standing it's a dog, takes a good few seconds to charge the intercooler, but once you start to go through the gears the boost seems to pick up as quickly as a standard intercooler, very little difference in lag, the boost contines to about 2-3mm into the red and is happy there, i've also fitted a bypass valve which you can just here firing when you come off the throttle from full boost.

I'm also running old s**t petrol as i have'nt filled it up in 2-3 months so will be interesting to see how it is on 99ron.

hopefully post some pictures of the finished cooler & pipework over the w/e.

 

[Basre]

Couldn't you simply have used a 9000 IC? good for 350 cfm and 20 psi before it becomes a tested bottleneck,, significantly more than the 8 valve would use

 

[iconoclast]

Couldn't you simply have used a 9000 IC? good for 350 cfm and 20 psi before it becomes a tested bottleneck,, significantly more than the 8 valve would use

according to the saab experts on the saabforums the 9000 intercooler is efficient but restrictive. plus pictures of the 9000 intercooler on the 900 show the tow hooks cut off! the saab is a good car to have the tow hooks in my opinion. :cheesy: 8valve may not eat 350cfm but turbo-system and engine will be happier with less restriction. mr. Si has a good idea i think. no dumb Down and Back 900 intercooler any more but instead two straight through. for really big effect add 4 together!:cheesy:

 

[Matthew]

That's right - the 9000 intercooler suffers from a greater than acceptable pressure-drop across the core. The end-tank design doesn't help either

A free-flowing IC will give a snappy throttle-response and pickup than a restrictive IC.

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[Si]

Intercooler

I should have it pretty much sorted for SOC so if anyone wants to see what kind of difference it makes i'm sure i can arrange to take them on a little run.

I think Orca's going to help set up my modded APC so shold have some accurate readings of boost pressure aswell and what pressure it starts to knock.

If we gat a dyno day sorted it would be really interesting to swap it for a volvo/9000 intercooler and see what kind of difference it makes. I guess thats the only way you can tell which is better/more suited.

I'm going to carry on developing it so hopefully in 6 months or so i'll have it set-up as good at it can be, I'll post exact instructions on how to put one together, then it's just down to whether people want to mod there headlights and do it this way or stick with the volvo/9000 version.

I think it's going to take some time getting the look of lights right, so i'll probably have a few versions of that aswell, again all will be posted so you can decide whether you really want to do it to your car. So far I have'nt make any permenant changes it's all stuff you can swap about, may turn out to be good for trackdays & 1/4 mile rather than for road use.

 

[Si]

First Picture

Only got a small crap camera so it's a bit vague + i've still got loads to do so don't want to give to much away until it's finished.

Sorting the lights out in 2 stages, i'm making some temporary covers at the moment, then when i get it sorted i'll fit some Fibre Glass ones that i've started.

Anyhway, here you go

 

[ejenner]

that looks quite interesting - and answers my question from earlier.

 

[ShadowWorks]

Si you have alot of talent and skill it would seem, those lights will be very different:cheesy:

I would love to see the results for a standard IC and a 9000s and then a Volvos, what is the benefits and downsides if any?

I hope your welds hold under boost.