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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This very day, my 99t engine arrived at Beninca's in Surrey Hills Melbourne to have Autronic fuel injection fitted. Don't ask the price, but I could buy several dozen 99s for what it's going to cost.

What this will give me, I hope, is an easy 200bhp, the opportunity to hook the car up to a computer and download different fuel maps to suit dry, wet, circuit, rallying etc.

The ECU can also control the Electric Water Pump, the Water Injection (although I am also fitting an intercooler), the cooling fans, etc. I have been told that you can do things like richen the mixture if the temperature rises to counteract the potential grenade effect.

First thing that needs to be done is machining the flywheel so that a crank position sensor can be fitted, and the inlet manifold needs to be machined to install the new (60lb Siemens Deka) injectors. Then, we will fabricate a fuel rail, modify the distributor to provide triggering for the ignition (which will become solid state).

We will also be able to set (and vary) the engine cutout, and a shift light.

I really hope that this will end the problems I have had with getting more power from the engine. It'd better!

I have also just sourced some locally made 16"x6.5" wheels at a relatively cheap AUS$224 each. Dunlop Motorsport has just released a new DO2 tarmac rally tyre in the right size. There was only one set of 9000 Carlsson rims I could find and the wrecker wanted AUS$1200 for four of them "with tyres." "Oh and I think a couple are a bit bent." sigh. Screw 'em.

Last time I drove the car, the heater fan decided to run only flat out, so I 'll have to get a new resistor or fan motor, too.

Now the only things left are to fit new rear brake rotors as the old one on the left was warped and didn't take too kindly to being heated to dull orange, and fix the British made intercom. :eek:

Oh probably another million other little things will come up in the next weeks. :confused:

Wish me luck
Dan

If you want to know more about Autronic, here's a link to their very utilitarian website http://www.autronic.com/
 

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Sounds like the kind of thing I'd like to do! Although I think I'd tend more toward the megasquirt as I can DIY it (and I already have a lot of the bits needed).

Definitely looking forward to pictures and results from the install :)
 

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AfterMarket ECU

I have gone for an aftermarket ECU in my 1980 with a 16vt. You will be very pleased with the results. You will see the biggest gains in the power band via electronic control of timing. 60 lb. injectors are pretty large. I have been happy with 42 lb. FOMOSport injectors. Good luck and keep us informed.

Here is a link to my write up on my EMS Stinger (Aus.) ECU in my 99. You might find some of the information useful.

http://www.saabclubseattle.org/GCronnstinger.html

Gregg
Bellingham, WA
USA
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah, before I decided to go the whole hog with the Autronic, I considered using the entire electronic fuel injection from something like a 16V 900T. In the end, though I thought that trying to get everything to fit, and to work would have been a lot of trouble and hassle, and then it might not give the results I was after.

One of the reason why I went with the Autronic is that I know that if there are problems, the guy fitting it would do the right thing. He has a great reputation. That's the main reason why I went Autronic rather than Motec, which is quite similar.

The 60lb injectors give me a theretical amx output of 350bhp. Running them at up to 80% gives me 280bhp, I'd be happy with 200 odd, plus LOTS of instantaneous torque, which is what makes a car quick on a rally stage.

As for the pics, I can't wait myself.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Dyno-mite

Today, the car went into Beninca's dyno.

I wanted to be there, but couldn't make it. I haven't seen the actual trace (graph) but Joe Beninca did phone through the highlights- (Drum roll please)

150 kW (200bhp) and 300Nm (220 lb/ft)​

There may be a bit more to come, but he says the spring in the wastegate is too weak to maintain pressure. (approx 1 bar - 14 psi)

He said that a few things about what was left of the old Fuel Injection cause him worry. One was the fuel pick-up which was apparently very dirty and the Fuel filter, too. He aso said the fuel line was kinked which would not have done the top end any good and finally the throttle could not have been more than 3/4 open.

I hate to think that if I had fixed these things I could have saved a s**tload of money. I guess that even with those things fixed, I would have had the ultimate power or torque, nor the specials- for example:

The injection responds to high temperatures with an increase in richness to avoid detonation/piston meltdown.

It also controls the speed of the water pump, pre-emptively raising it when full throttle is used, and also the electric cooling fans.

It also controls a water spray on the intercooler, Yes, Managed to fit one of those, too.

I hope to be able to post the trace, pics of the engine bay (nearly unrecognisable compared to standard) and maybe even a video of the car on the dyno, soon.

In the meantime, I CAN'T WAIT TO GET BEHIND THE WHEEL!
 

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nice one! - you reached the magic 200bhp mark :cheesy:

I believe you could get different wastegate springs. My car with water inj. had a much smaller one than the other car (and the boost had no troubloe getting over 1 bar!).

am looking forward to the pictures!
 

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This is the way to do it. That kinda torque right from the get go. Very good. The CIS usally runs lean at the upper end. Like 99Sven, I'm putting in a standlaone ECU on my 900t. It has been a bit of a chore with the wiring, signal pickups and maps, but it will soon be worth all the effort. Can you control ignition timing with your system? Everyone I have talked to about the standalones says that you get your fuel dialed in and then adjust the timing on the dyno and watch the power with the changing of the timing. You can also find the cell of your crusing motoring speed lean out the fuel a bit and get some better milage.
If you went to the trouble of the new injectors and rail, did you consider a primary set and a secondary set? Primary being like 19lbs and 42 for the seconadry. The problem of huge injectors is on the low end when you try to get injector to open and close in a very small millisecond and it just can't do it. Just a thought.
Way to go on making your 99t that much better. Let us know what you get when is is tuned/dialed in.:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Squaab99t said:
This is the way to do it. That kinda torque right from the get go. Very good. The CIS usally runs lean at the upper end. Like 99Sven, I'm putting in a standlaone ECU on my 900t. It has been a bit of a chore with the wiring, signal pickups and maps, but it will soon be worth all the effort. Can you control ignition timing with your system? Everyone I have talked to about the standalones says that you get your fuel dialed in and then adjust the timing on the dyno and watch the power with the changing of the timing. You can also find the cell of your crusing motoring speed lean out the fuel a bit and get some better milage.
If you went to the trouble of the new injectors and rail, did you consider a primary set and a secondary set? Primary being like 19lbs and 42 for the seconadry. The problem of huge injectors is on the low end when you try to get injector to open and close in a very small millisecond and it just can't do it. Just a thought.
Way to go on making your 99t that much better. Let us know what you get when is is tuned/dialed in.:D
With Xmas, I won't get the car back now til early in the New Year. ;oops:

It's a job I'd like to have done myself but time and space are an issue, so I paid someone $85/hr to install it for me. The whole job will cost nearly AU$10K, but what has been done is extensive- it even includes a new camshaft.

Remember that when it left the factory, the car had one transistor- in the ignition module- so this is rather more than a new ECU. Plug in a laptop and you can control anything you like.

Remember also that this is a competition car. Mileage ain't an issue.
 

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What have you ended up doing with the water injection and the IC?

I'd like pics of where youve ended up putting the IC too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Finally back

Owing to certain, ahem, financial issues- son gets married, trip to Vietnam, etc etc- I finally got the readies together to spring my baby from her prison workshop.
Last weekend I had the first opportunity to release the beast, and we have created a rocketship! The official figures are 200bhp and 300Nm (neat, huh;) ) but there seems to be so much more than my similarly powered (albeit much heavier) 9000Aero.
Once the revcounter broaches 2,500 (not much below this) the thing pulls like the veritable schoolboy. It's the car I've been longing for since I built this little one twenty years ago.
The front of the engine bay has been completely changed. The washer bottle has been sacrificed to a cool air intake, and an insulated pipe takes the cold air directly into the intake side of the turbo which is still in its stock location. From there it travels left to the intercooler which is just behind the headlight. There's a cooling water jet directed at the intercooler, controlled by the Autronic CPU.
From there it executes a two and a half pike with twist to enter the stock inlet manifold passing the throttle which now has a position sensor.
There's an inlet and exhaust temp sensor, and the CPU also control the electric water pump, and the fans.
Fuel is delivered by a new fuel rail into 4 x 60lb injectors.
All the distributor now does is distribute the spark. Timing is controlled by the CPU according to one of theose 3D maps car manufacturers used to love showing in brochures.
The CPU is in the passenger (left) footwell behind the navigator's footrest.
Next jobs to finish are to create a new washer system (anyone seen the ones on a Meredes Sprinter Van?) adjust the gearshift, get rid of a bit mire weight and repolace the grille and headlight surroiund w/out cutting off airflow to the I/C.
The thing I'm now worried about is how the gearbox is going to cope:roll:
I am attaching some pics.
GRRRR The upload feature on this is sooooo annoying
 

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Looking good!

Is the distributor using the original hall sensor for the ECU ?

A good way to overcome the wastegate issue on the standard turbo is to fit the assembly from an '85 800 8v T, you need to alter the exhaust pipe slightly, but this way you have a modern type rod operated actuator.
 

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Nice :)

do you have a later saab c900 turbo+manifold on your engine?

does this make any difference in terms of power, i thought that they were the same apart from the addition of water cooling on the later one.

I am about to sell a c900 turbo for very little money.. should i instead break it and keep the engine for 99T donor parts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Is the distributor using the original hall sensor for the ECU ?

I think that the hall effect sensor is now used as a spark trigger, with a crank position sensor engineered into the machined flywheel

A good way to overcome the wastegate issue on the standard turbo is to fit the assembly from an '85 800 8v T, you need to alter the exhaust pipe slightly, but this way you have a modern type rod operated actuator.
I've had the later wastegate for years- it was the only way to adjust boost during an event. Now it's electronically controlled.

do you have a later saab c900 turbo+manifold on your engine?
Yes it's from a late 8v h motor

does this make any difference in terms of power, i thought that they were the same apart from the addition of water cooling on the later one.
Don't think/believe that the manifold is watercooled- you actually want to retain heat in the exhaust- makes for more power.

I am about to sell a c900 turbo for very little money.. should i instead break it and keep the engine for 99T donor parts?
How much space you got?
 

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danrotman said:
Is the distributor using the original hall sensor for the ECU ?

I think that the hall effect sensor is now used as a spark trigger, with a crank position sensor engineered into the machined flywheel


That's why i am going for the megasquirt ECU, the hall sensor can be used instead of using a crank sensor, which takes away the need for machining the flywheel.
 

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danrotman said:
does this make any difference in terms of power, i thought that they were the same apart from the addition of water cooling on the later one.
Don't think/believe that the manifold is watercooled- you actually want to retain heat in the exhaust- makes for more power.
I meant the watercooling on the turbo - my c900 turbo has a coolant feed.

My boost is now adjustable using the pot on the APC box :D

Sonnett1 - I fancy building a megasquirt kit too!
This may be a silly question - but is the standard 99T dissy a hall effect one or is it inductance or are these the same things just with different names?
I understand what it does but dont know what its called!
 

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Sonnett1 - I fancy building a megasquirt kit too!
This may be a silly question - but is the standard 99T dissy a hall effect one or is it inductance or are these the same things just with different names?
I understand what it does but dont know what its called![/QUOTE]

AFAIK the disi on a 99T is hall effect, the same as the H type engine. The 99T using 'old' style control unit (on the inner wing, big black box) the later H type engine using the small control unit (newer technology). I do not know if the later control unit can replace the early one, as long as the wiring is the same i can't see why not..........one to look into i think ?
 

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boxman said:
the 99 turbo dissy isnt a hall effect, i think its a magic eye
Isn't a magic eye a photocell ?

It's a breakerless system with an inductive transmitter. It works just like an alternator.
It should still be able to be used as a trigger for an ECU.
 

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I'm loving that engine :D

The turbo dissy is described as "breakerless with inductive transmitter" the 84- dissys are described as "breakerless with hall transmitter" so I guess they're different. Certainly the turbo dissy is rebuildable, but the later type you're supposed to ditch the whole thing and replace it.

Tomarse, stop copying me! I've been collecting the various bits needed to go over to megasquirt/jolt for a while. I will hopefully be fitting a crank sensor when I (eventually...) build my engine.

My wastegate is easy to adjust - a few nuts and off comes the cover. Much easier to get to than a remote actuator like the c900's have. Although an electronic control wins overall :D
 
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