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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, due to some questions raised on this forum about fluid changes and tyre wear and concern I have about similar issues with my TX, I decided to email Haldex/Borgwarner with a couple of questions.

This was my email:

Hi,

I have a 2008 SAAB Turbo X equipped with haldex gen 4 traction system with eLSD. I have read about there being a problem with running tyres with different levels of wear. I have p zero tyres at approx 20% wear on the front and 50% wear on the rear.

Would this cause a problem ? If so, what sort of issues would I experience ?

Also I have heard conflicting information about fluid changes in the transfer casings. Are there any recommended fluid replacement intervals ?

Thank you for your assistance.

Regards

This was the response from Sweeden:

Please regard this feedback ONLY as general information.
The Haldex Gen IV Torque Transfer Device (TTD) and electronic Limited Slip Coupling (eLSD) featured in the SAAB models is sealed for life and doesn't require oil and/or a filter change during designed lifecycle. The service instructions and plans specified by the automaker take though precedence due to warranty and others matters. Please also note that the Rear Drive Module (RDM) is not supplied entirely by BorgWarner and there might be other considerations to observe for the rest of the components.

The Haldex system is designed to handle a certain variation in tire sizes due to wear, usage of minispare and so on. As a rule of thumb, the All-Wheel Drive performance is maintained up to a differences of 4% on individual tires. Again, it's important to stress that the instruction, advice and recommendations presented in the user manual are valid and should be regarded as the primary guide for these matters.

We appreciate the interest in the Haldex line of products and wish you great success and enjoyment with your vehicle.

Best Regards

BorgWarner


-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: Wahlgren, Sofie (Landskrona)
Skickat: den 20 juni 2012 13:09
Till: Beldie, Gabriel (Landskrona)
Ämne: VB: Tyre wear

Not sure if anyone else has asked the same questions to the supplier before and it is interesting to note that the eLSD was designed to be a lifetime sealed unit whereas people on this forum make note of fluid changes for the eLSD?

Also, in regards to tyre wear... 4% variance :eek: wtf
 

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Interesting. I too have read conflicting information. Thank you for that. After my rear diff is replaced under warranty I think I will still do fluid changes as I'd rather be safe than sorry..
 

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Hey great info. And Barker weren't you the one that said 35k service intervals? If so, where is that published?

And 4%? That could be overall circumference or wheel speed which is a big variance so I wouldn't worry.

So what exactly is the RDM (rear drive module)? Is that the complete axle assembly? If so, how does the Elsd fit in?

I saw it is made by American Axle (the group that was Saab signed on to do the e-assist electric rear drive setup).

Here's a good find too.
http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA46898525.PDF
 

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OK sure I read that. It's not written anywhere in a specific document. While Kanundrum opinions can make sense the Wiki info can be anything. We can write whatever we want on that site.

So, it's not in any service bulletin anywhere and you aren't (or weren't) going to get a dealer to do this service.

I'm still on the fence but going to leave it be for the time being especially since virtually no place, dealer or indy, has done or knows how to do this service.

Perhaps somebody with an '08 that is having their unit repaired under GM's powetrain warranty can get GM to state that the fluids are to be changed. If GM continues to stand behind the 100,000 mi. powertrain warranty without any service then I'm going to leave it.

Also keep in mind the Buick La Crosse with the Haldex 4 has no service interval until 100,000 mi. for the transaxle only.

So for the inquiring mind, which many of seem to be, I'd chase after GM and get any of their TSB's if they issue or have any. They are probably the largest purchaser of the Haldex 4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I see it like this, we still have some confusion about terminology in relation to component identification and this is adding to the problem. If a clutch pack needs fluid changes , partial or full , I'm not entirely sure if this relates to the LSD as the RDM has several distinct separate components.

The auto trans on our vehicles is sealed for life unless there is a problem. I see the LSD as being a much simpler device under less load as compared to the Auto trans . So why would there be a need to change the LSD fluid?

I'm not going to encourage my Saab dealer to do something to my XWD system that they normally wouldn't do and I certainly would never have a non Saab trained service tech play around with my XWD system.
 

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I see it like this, we still have some confusion about terminology in relation to component identification and this is adding to the problem. If a clutch pack needs fluid changes , partial or full , I'm not entirely sure if this relates to the LSD as the RDM has several distinct separate components.

The auto trans on our vehicles is sealed for life unless there is a problem. I see the LSD as being a much simpler device under less load as compared to the Auto trans . So why would there be a need to change the LSD fluid?

I'm not going to encourage my Saab dealer to do something to my XWD system that they normally wouldn't do and I certainly would never have a non Saab trained service tech play around with my XWD system.
Interesting from the WIS above and turbo23 you have some good points.
The auto tranny however is not sealed for life and does have a specific interval that is not in dispute. Typically a "sealed for life" would not have a drain and/or fill point. Ours has both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hey great info. And Barker weren't you the one that said 35k service intervals? If so, where is that published?

And 4%? That could be overall circumference or wheel speed which is a big variance so I wouldn't worry.

So what exactly is the RDM (rear drive module)? Is that the complete axle assembly? If so, how does the Elsd fit in?

I saw it is made by American Axle (the group that was Saab signed on to do the e-assist electric rear drive setup).

Here's a good find too.
http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA46898525.PDF

I know it has some snowboard dude in it that's probably stoned :lol:but it offers some Basic info about the XWD components.

 

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The workshop manual [WIS] is pretty clear (I picked one up on EBay for less than $10 -- easy install disk on Windows machine; I have no compunction about how or where it came from, especially given the current uncertainty about parts and service).

The automatic transmission is NOT sealed for life. Rather the question is severity of service for fluid changes. I choose to do so annually (the WIS shows how to do, which fluids etc.).

The differential clutch (as per the WIS) is NOT sealed for life (hence the instructions for partial change).

There may be elements of the Haldex system (outside of items listed in WIS) that are non-serviceable (at least by us mere mortals). Would love to know what the 'expected' service life is... I'm afraid that when something specific goes (like so much in today's automotive world) it becomes a replacement piece. Now whether there emerges options (and less expensive rebuilds etc.) remain to be seen...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well if i was a snow boarder with dreds and a wicked beanie, I would totally wana get wasted and check out the underside of a totally wicked XWD Saab with some like cool engineer type dude :lol:

and then get more wasted before getting that Saab on some slippery snow slopes!! Rad Dude :cool:
 
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