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Tell them you do not want this head, they destroyed it and walk away .No laywers ,no court .Buy anotherguaranteed head and move on. If they persue a collection , deal with it after your car is running .Keep reciepts for your new head . I the event they try to collect their bill, Send them yours and counter. Also file a complaint immediately with the BBB. You won ,they lost.End of story. Pat
 

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Now this is starting to sound like my sorry story that I wasn't going to post.

In the end what I did is pretty much in line with these guys, I towed my car away from the garage and on to a Saab dealer.

Although I was fuming and took some legal advice who said I did have a claim against the original guy for the cost of the head repair (£450) and the rebuild done by Saab, in the end, my motivation for retribution dwindled and the more important thing was getting my car back on the road in an appropriate way.

I might have won, I might not, even though I believe that I was right. From my limited experience of courts, to me law is like when people quote passages from the Bible - you can always find something to support your argument, it's just down to who pulls the best and most convincing bits out even though they might well be total tosh!

David.
 

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Matt88S said:
If I buy new valves, lifters, and have them finish it up, its going to cost me around $800-$900.
:eek:

I went down a similar path with my 8v, BUT it was a GOOD experience. I had been quoted $1,000 for a what a Saab specialist mechanic said was a burned exhaust valve. So, I took the car to another Saab specialist.

I had the head skimmed, valves inspected, and lapped. ALL valves were good. This work cost me about $130 total, but saved me over $800.

I'd say your 16v bill should have been around $250-300 tops, if it had been skimmed, inspected, lapped, and new seals.

You had very good intentions, but you were done wrong.

My opinion, don't pay them and get another head from a junk yard. So what if it costs you $100 and another $300 to refurbish (Which it shouldn't). You'll still save $400 and know it's done correctly.
 

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Agreed, cut your losses and walk away. Leave that engine shop with their repair bill and a knackered head. Get a complete used cylinder head from a donor car - they're ten a penny if you pull them off yourself.

I'll try to answer your questions here.

When the hydraulic lifters are removed, they should be labelled and stored in an oil bath. They can then be refitted without any further work. If the engine shop have blasted air into the lifters, then they're shot. If they've taken them to bits then I reckon that alone will knacker them.

A new set of lifters is quite expensive, and it's unnecessary to relace all of them. You never get a whole set failing at once, perhaps unless the engine's suffered oil starvation or bad oil pressure problems.

Muppet Technician said:
after talking them all apart and cleaning them, they just wont pressure back up
The reason for lifter failure is in that statement!

The stellite treatment is there to protect the valve surfaces and edges from the extreme heat of combustion, particularly on a turbo car. If that stelliting is removed (perhaps through valve grinding) then the valve don't have that protection. Heat will then melt the valve.

You might get away with that on a non-turbo car, but not on your T16. I have had an exhaust valve burn through on my T16 and it was brutal. Didn't damage anything else, but 1/4 of the valve's material had been vapourised.

How quickly the damage occurs depends on several factors, among them: ignition timing, engine tune and how hard you drive the car.

There would be the chance of a valve head dropping off due to damage, and that could write-off the engine.

Any competent engine shop would know how to treat stellited valves.

As for having to replace the valves anyway, that is ********! Since were valves non-reusable??! A set of new valves would be very expensive.

As I say - leave the shop with their own mess and walk away. Don't pay them a penny. Also make sure that Autohaus knows exactly what has happened.

Go get a complete cylinder head from a donor car. Non-turbo and turbo heads are the same, apart from the cams. Please give us an update! :)

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
N/A Head to Turbo Transplant, Possible?

Since a psychotic machine shop is holding my head hostage, I am forced to consider my other options. :D :(

One options sits in my shop and hence my question. Could I transplant the head from an 88 non-turbo engine onto my 88 Turbo?

Are there any physical differences in the connections, springs, valves, etc?

Cheers
 

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how if i recall correctly the answer was no. because the cams are different which allow for a different compression, right?tubo vs. n/a
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Drat.

You're right aren't you, I seem to recall that too now that I think about it.
Bloody bleep bleep. :(

thanks,
 

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The 16V heads are the same. The only difference between a turbo and a non-turbo head is the intake cam. So....if you have a good non-turbo head and you have the cam from your held-hostage turbo head, just swap it in and you're good to go.

It's not the cams that change the compression ratio, it's the pistons.
 

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Philbert's right - the non-turbo head is identical apart from the intake cam.

Does the hostage head have overhead cam oilers? It makes no difference, but the heads with integral oilers are preferable because the oil pipe junctions are very fragile and can leak. The changeover was MY89 IIRC, which would affect late 1988 cars.

I'm going to merge this with the original head thread if that's okay. Just helps to keep information together for future reference.

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
The machine shop has my complete head assembly including cams as per their instructions.

Hostage head has overhead oilers.

Your post was most informative Matthew, many thanks.

I'm going to merge this with the original head thread if that's okay. Just helps to keep information together for future reference.
Quite all right, I rather like it like this. :D

I’ve written a letter of complaint detailing what happened to my head and the treatment that I received trying to resolve the matter. I’ve sent it to the owner of the company and I plan to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and give them a copy of the letter and any other info I have too.

I’m afraid that this may force them to resolve the matter. I don't really want them to because if they go ahead and fix it, then I am going to have to worry about the quality of their workmanship and will probably have to take it apart myself and check all the spec or have another shop do it.
And if they just give me back my head in the shape it is in now, then I’ve got to replace all the exhaust valves and lifters before it will be right again and it would almost be more cost effective to buy a rebuilt from saabsite.
I want to make sure I do everything I can and cover all the bases though. I don’t want them coming back later and saying I owe them such and such.

I’ve found a guy down in Texas that will ship me a head for about $150 + 25-35 for shipping. QualitySaab.com, anyone heard of them?

If I could find a head locally that would be great, unfortunately Saab’s are rare as hen’s teeth around here and even if I did find one they would probably want a mint for it.

The other day I went out and sat in my car for a while. I think I’m suffering from Saab withdrawal symptoms. :cry:

 

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Can I just quote from a manual I have sitting here: Saab Service Manual 900 M1985 16 engine:

Valves
Exhaust valve seat angle 44.5deg (the contact surface of the valve has a 0.006mm layer of stellite) Valve head diameter 29mm +/-0.1mm

NB. Only a limited amount of material can be removed from exhaust valve face, since the stellite coating must be preserved as far as possible.Consequently, if the valve is badly pitted, the valve should be replaced.
 
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