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Discussion Starter #1
During my drive home tonight while sitting in non-moving traffic, I noticed the smell of burning oil coming from my car. I hadn't spilled any oil on the engine or anything like that so I knew it wasn't coming from under the hood. So I put the car in neutral and gave it some gas... blue smoke. :evil:

Crap.

When I got home I popped the hood and didn't see anything that hadn't been there for some time. I looked under the car to see if there was any oil in the driveway where I park every day, but there wasn't. I revved the car again. Not a big cloud of blue smoke, more like a wisp, and not during the revving, but slightly after.

What have I done to my car??? Are there any tests that I can perform myself to determine what might be wrong? Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
 

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BLÜE 9-3se said:
During my drive home tonight while sitting in non-moving traffic, I noticed the smell of burning oil coming from my car. I hadn't spilled any oil on the engine or anything like that so I knew it wasn't coming from under the hood. So I put the car in neutral and gave it some gas... blue smoke. :evil:

Crap.

When I got home I popped the hood and didn't see anything that hadn't been there for some time. I looked under the car to see if there was any oil in the driveway where I park every day, but there wasn't. I revved the car again. Not a big cloud of blue smoke, more like a wisp, and not during the revving, but slightly after.

What have I done to my car??? Are there any tests that I can perform myself to determine what might be wrong? Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
Turbo seals, as a guess, but I do not see how this can be isolated, in a practical sense,...Ensure that nothing is clogged in the engine vent system.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The smoke is coming from the tailpipe. I will take a closer look around the turbo tomorrow.
 

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Happened to me around 84k miles. The turbo seal failed, first gradually, then catastrophically because I believed I was seeing normal puffs of smoke from the turbo. By the time the seal broke, what could have been a simple rebuild became a big job.

Oil through the entire exhaust and cat converter, O2 sensors fouled. New turbo to start. Exhaust and cat taken apart to clean. Front O2 failed a few weeks later. Total cost, since I did not have time to sort it out myself, close to $2k. Could have rented a car for two weeks, and rebuilt the turbo for half that <chuckle>

You can tell by the exhaust. If the turbo is leaking, there is oil besides the smoke. If the engine is burning oil, mostly just soot and dirty condensation/water in exhaust.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I thought white smoke indicated turbo failure and that blue smoke indicated rings, head gasket, or a crack someplace...

Calling my mechanic this afternoon... hope he can fit me in.

Would this be a good opportunity to just remove the t-25 and have them install the TD04 that's sitting on my workbench?
 

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BLÜE 9-3se said:
I thought white smoke indicated turbo failure and that blue smoke indicated rings, head gasket, or a crack someplace...
Agreed, blue smoke would be oil being burned in the engine, but a small amount of oil hitting the hot exhaust parts like the downpipe and the cat may look the same. It also depends on where the turbo is leaking. Oil from the compressor would be going into the IC and the intake pipe. Oil from the turbine into the downpipe and the exhaust. Trouble is, there is always some oil in the intake pipes... I talked myself into thinking it was normal at 8 years. By the time the smoke screen filled an intersection and I had my answer, it was a bit late to be thinking about a rebuild.

As for he TD04, you mean you need an excuse? :cheesy:
 

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BLÜE 9-3se said:
I thought white smoke indicated turbo failure and that blue smoke indicated rings, head gasket, or a crack someplace...

Calling my mechanic this afternoon... hope he can fit me in.

Would this be a good opportunity to just remove the t-25 and have them install the TD04 that's sitting on my workbench?
If the TDO4 is in good shape, there is not a better reason than this to replace the t25.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Crap. Crapcrapcrap.

I do not need this right now! Like I need it anytime...

Hmmm... this is going to cost me all my u-p-g-r-a-d-e money dammit!!! and put me into a rental car for like a week, I'm sure.

Is there anyway that I can determine for myself what exactly the problem is?
 

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AFAIK:

Constant blue smoke = burning oil during combustion in engine (rings?)
Constant white smoke = burning coolant during combusting in engine (headgasket?)
Blue smoke after letting off of throttle = turbo oil seal failure (boost pressure/ exhaust backpressure holds oil in proper location until throttle is let off, then a bit leaks into the hot exhaust)

I remember reading (back in my c900 days) about a couple of people who experienced just that problem and needed a turbo rebuild. Of course, with an old car, some confidence, and a 50 dollar rebuild kit, it was easily solved for them. Sounds like you already have a decent TD04 to drop in. So it's even easier for you :cool: Good luck, and sorry to hear about the problem.
 

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Fast_Ed said:
AFAIK:

Constant blue smoke = burning oil during combustion in engine (rings?)
Constant white smoke = burning coolant during combusting in engine (headgasket?)
Blue smoke after letting off of throttle = turbo oil seal failure (boost pressure/ exhaust backpressure holds oil in proper location until throttle is let off, then a bit leaks into the hot exhaust)
I agree, but...

I had a small constant leak from the turbine seal. Even at cold idle in the end. Bigger leak when on boost, or hot idle. White towel held behind the exhaust showed specks of oil, not dirty water. Oil in exhaust. All symptoms of a turbine seal failure, different from a compressor failure where the oil goes into the intake.

Small amounts of smoke for a few weeks on and off, then within days, complete seal failure, and about 1 quart of oil loss every twenty miles... nice smoke-screen though. 10 hours of labor to take it all apart, check the cylinders with a scope to make sure nothing was sucked into the engine when the turbo ground itself into oblivion, clean the oil out, and put it back together again. Labor to replace the turbo was the small part.

I don't see an easy way to tell oil is leaking from the compressor, because a little oil ALWAYS leaks there... On the other hand, white or blue smoke, there should be no un-burned oil in the exhaust, just water and soot, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, after a week of my car being at the mechanic's I finally got it back saturday evening.

Sunday and monday were spent tweeking the MBC+A (which is STILL coming along) and fabricating the brace that goes under the turbo and connects to the block.

To help assuage the cost of this little nightmare, I did some of the parts hunting and purchasing myself. In lieu of hard lines and banjo fittings, straight and angle connectors were used along with braided hose. The cost of the fittings and 2 three-foot lengths of braided hose was $100 at the local speed shop (B & B Performance in Branford, Craig was a big help) versus the $374 from Saab or the several hundred from Goldwing who wanted me to purchase parts I didn't need because they wouldn't part out a turbo system unless I bought the whole system. Easy to see which way to go there.

The lines were fabricated and connected without difficulty. The silicone elbow that goes from the intake to the turbo needed to be trimmed to reduce the length of the elbow so that it wouldn't be squished by the water pump. No big deal there. One really big parts expense that was unforseen was the need for a different sized oil drain flange (or whatever it's called), the one off the t-25 did not line up with the TD04 and cost $137 from Saab. I can hold the little pice of metal pipe in my hand, and if I had a welder (and skill) could have made myself for about a buck. That was a killer. Anyway...

The last big hurdle was connecting this $137 drain to the block. The stock inlet to the block is straight and about an inch or so long. When connected to a t-25 a short piece of 45 degree angle oil hose is used to attach the drain to the block. The placement of the oil drain on the TD04 is slightly higher and makes that little piece of rubber hose all but unusable in such an important job. A piece had to be fabricated out of larger diameter braided hose as my mechanic was at his wits end trying to get something to work. A combination of the braided hose and an oil-block inlet for a 9000 (which has the 45 degree angle in it) did the trick. I'll take some photos of the set up this afternoon and post them on my website.

The turbo is MUCH louder as is the pssssht sound of the BOV. Turbo lag is increased, however the torque available is much more noticeable through steering feel. It is easy to tell that there is much more power available now. I have yet to be able to hammer on it though, as the MBC+A needs more fine tuning (the first time I pegged it I spiked to 23lbs of boost and hit fuel cut BIG TIME!) so I will be working on that this afternoon too. A quick phone call to SPATL helped me out with a couple of questions that I had and Jeff's answer was to send me a spacer for the spring inside the valve. Should help control the opening of the wastegate, which is what he thinks is needed.

I am really looking forward to being able to let it out on the highway to see what the TD04 is capable of. I'll let you know!
 

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BLÜE 9-3se said:
Well, after a week of my car being at the mechanic's I finally got it back saturday evening.

Sunday and monday were spent tweeking the MBC+A (which is STILL coming along) and fabricating the brace that goes under the turbo and connects to the block.

To help assuage the cost of this little nightmare, I did some of the parts hunting and purchasing myself. In lieu of hard lines and banjo fittings, straight and angle connectors were used along with braided hose. The cost of the fittings and 2 three-foot lengths of braided hose was $100 at the local speed shop (B & B Performance in Branford, Craig was a big help) versus the $374 from Saab or the several hundred from Goldwing who wanted me to purchase parts I didn't need because they wouldn't part out a turbo system unless I bought the whole system. Easy to see which way to go there.

The lines were fabricated and connected without difficulty. The silicone elbow that goes from the intake to the turbo needed to be trimmed to reduce the length of the elbow so that it wouldn't be squished by the water pump. No big deal there. One really big parts expense that was unforseen was the need for a different sized oil drain flange (or whatever it's called), the one off the t-25 did not line up with the TD04 and cost $137 from Saab. I can hold the little pice of metal pipe in my hand, and if I had a welder (and skill) could have made myself for about a buck. That was a killer. Anyway...

The last big hurdle was connecting this $137 drain to the block. The stock inlet to the block is straight and about an inch or so long. When connected to a t-25 a short piece of 45 degree angle oil hose is used to attach the drain to the block. The placement of the oil drain on the TD04 is slightly higher and makes that little piece of rubber hose all but unusable in such an important job. A piece had to be fabricated out of larger diameter braided hose as my mechanic was at his wits end trying to get something to work. A combination of the braided hose and an oil-block inlet for a 9000 (which has the 45 degree angle in it) did the trick. I'll take some photos of the set up this afternoon and post them on my website.

The turbo is MUCH louder as is the pssssht sound of the BOV. Turbo lag is increased, however the torque available is much more noticeable through steering feel. It is easy to tell that there is much more power available now. I have yet to be able to hammer on it though, as the MBC+A needs more fine tuning (the first time I pegged it I spiked to 23lbs of boost and hit fuel cut BIG TIME!) so I will be working on that this afternoon too. A quick phone call to SPATL helped me out with a couple of questions that I had and Jeff's answer was to send me a spacer for the spring inside the valve. Should help control the opening of the wastegate, which is what he thinks is needed.

I am really looking forward to being able to let it out on the highway to see what the TD04 is capable of. I'll let you know!
Where do you service you Saab? I am in Central CT as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have work done by John Lear at Swedish Performance in Branford. Kind of a long way from where I live, but I used to live in Branford and a buddy of mine and he are friends. My friend (a volvo guy) recommended him to me.

www.saabmastertech.com
 

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BLÜE 9-3se said:
I thought white smoke indicated turbo failure and that blue smoke indicated rings, head gasket, or a crack someplace...
I thought white smoke indicated the new pope :cheesy: someone had to say it
 
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